Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[ftovagliari]

Hello,

Most of the features of OCamlEditor are closely related to each other and to the 
GTK library and it would require a considerable effort to make them available 
separately for other projects. However there are some widgets that can be reused 
quite easily such as the search results widget, quick file chooser, location 
history, dependency graph viewer, maybe the cmt view.
OCamlEditor contains also a separated library, "gmisclib", with some generic 
widgets that can help.

Francesco


Il giorno martedì 12 febbraio 2013 12:35:14 UTC+1, Louis Gesbert ha scritto:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> No offence taken :). OCamlEditor indeed looks like a very interesting project, 
> 
> with lots of features already present. But the scope and project goals are not 
> 
> the same though, so I think ocp-editor still has a place on its own ;
> 
> 
> 
> One of our main goals is to make IDE bricks available publicly, so I think the 
> 
> projects can benefit to one another. I would be glad to borrow some widgets from 
> 
> OCamlEditor, and it could use automatic indentation or better toplevel process 
> 
> interaction.
> 
> 
> 
> If the author -- Francesco Tovagliari -- is around here, I would be glad to know 
> 
> how he feels about this ?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro
> 
> 
> 
> Le mardi 12 février 2013 00:24:36, Martin DeMello a écrit :
> 
> > Hi Louis,
> 
> > 
> 
> > That looks very interesting. Sorry if this seems like a rude question;
> 
> > I truly don't mean it that way, but if your editor needs a few months
> 
> > of work, why not work on a stripped-down interface for OCamlEditor
> 
> > [http://ocamleditor.forge.ocamlcore.org/] instead? I remember when I
> 
> > was learning web development I enjoyed using Evrsoft's "1st Page" IDE,
> 
> > which had modes that would add or remove bits from the interface as
> 
> > you progressed from beginner to power user, and something like that
> 
> > would be very nice to have for OCaml.
> 
> > 
> 
> > martin
> 
> > 
> 
> > On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Louis Gesbert
> 
> > 
> 
> >  wrote:
> 
> > > OCaml is definitely lacking in this area; I am at the moment working
> 
> > > precisely on solving this issue, with a dedicated Gtk editor that runs
> 
> > > on Linux, OSX and Windows. It is pretty basic at the moment but already
> 
> > > has code edition and working toplevel interaction (no compilation or
> 
> > > project yet).
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > Release is intended in a few months from now, with sufficient features
> 
> > > for beginners and students. If successful, it will then be extended to
> 
> > > handle bigger projects (multi-file, build system integration, etc.).
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > Until then, you may see the project's github page at
> 
> > > https://github.com/OCamlPro/ocp-edit-simple (name temporary)
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > --
> 
> > > Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > Le Monday 11 February 2013 01:49:41, Martin DeMello a écrit :
> 
> > >> I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a good
> 
> > >> (beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and trying
> 
> > >> out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:
> 
> > >> 
> 
> > >> * vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want to
> 
> > >> use them will know how to do it)
> 
> > >> * anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and OSX,
> 
> > >> and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
> 
> > >> * anything that needed fiddling with config files just to install it
> 
> > >> * anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently present
> 
> > >> and configured (!)
> 
> > >> * anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4
> 
> > >> 
> 
> > >> I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and Geany won
> 
> > >> out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being able to
> 
> > >> find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a perfect
> 
> > >> beginner-friendly experience.
> 
> > >> 
> 
> > >> So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting Geany as
> 
> > >> the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be happy
> 
> > >> to write up a page on it and contribute it.
> 
> > >> 
> 
> > >> martin
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > --
> 
> > > Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> 
> > > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> 
> > > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> 
> > > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> 
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> 
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> 
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

[Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Martin DeMello]

I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a good
(beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and trying
out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:

* vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want to
use them will know how to do it)
* anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and OSX,
and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
* anything that needed fiddling with config files just to install it
* anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently present
and configured (!)
* anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4

I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and Geany won
out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being able to
find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a perfect
beginner-friendly experience.

So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting Geany as
the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be happy
to write up a page on it and contribute it.

martin

Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Ashish Agarwal]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1807 bytes --]

This page [1] needs some help and is probably a good place for discussion
about IDEs. Please add any discussion you'd like and we'll merge it. Given
your list below, maybe you want to make a table of features with a
checkmark for each IDE having that feature (but that could be hard to
maintain, so plain prose might be better).

[1] http://ocaml.org/dev_tools.html

On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Martin DeMello <martindemello@gmail.com>wrote:

> I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a good
> (beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and trying
> out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:
>
> * vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want to
> use them will know how to do it)
> * anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and OSX,
> and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
> * anything that needed fiddling with config files just to install it
> * anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently present
> and configured (!)
> * anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4
>
> I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and Geany won
> out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being able to
> find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a perfect
> beginner-friendly experience.
>
> So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting Geany as
> the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be happy
> to write up a page on it and contribute it.
>
> martin
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2641 bytes --]

Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Louis Gesbert]

OCaml is definitely lacking in this area; I am at the moment working precisely 
on solving this issue, with a dedicated Gtk editor that runs on Linux, OSX and 
Windows. It is pretty basic at the moment but already has code edition and 
working toplevel interaction (no compilation or project yet).

Release is intended in a few months from now, with sufficient features for 
beginners and students. If successful, it will then be extended to handle 
bigger projects (multi-file, build system integration, etc.).

Until then, you may see the project's github page at
https://github.com/OCamlPro/ocp-edit-simple (name temporary)

--
Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro

Le Monday 11 February 2013 01:49:41, Martin DeMello a écrit :
> I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a good
> (beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and trying
> out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:
> 
> * vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want to
> use them will know how to do it)
> * anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and OSX,
> and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
> * anything that needed fiddling with config files just to install it
> * anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently present
> and configured (!)
> * anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4
> 
> I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and Geany won
> out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being able to
> find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a perfect
> beginner-friendly experience.
> 
> So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting Geany as
> the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be happy
> to write up a page on it and contribute it.
> 
> martin

Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Gabriel Scherer]

I must say I'm a bit dubious of dedicated editors: people prefer to
use the tools they're familiar with from other languages, and I'm not
really sure what the added value of a different tool would be. There
have been attempts to write editors for OCaml (Cameleon{,2}, zed (
https://github.com/diml/zed )...), so far none of them really gained
traction.

Volunteers work on whatever they fancy and I prefer not to interfere
negatively -- though it's unclear in this case whether this is a
personal side-project or an OCamlPro project. Moreover, all these
efforts have led to interesting byproducts: various libraries from
Cameleon (eg. ocaml-rss http://zoggy.github.com/ocamlrss/ ) and zed (
and in particular the nice toplevel utop https://github.com/diml/utop
).

That said, I would still feel more enthusiastic about a project that
can be used with other tools people use ( this is a good property of
ocp-indent for example ), or directly improving OCaml support about
tools that already have a user base : syntax highlighting libraries
for various editors, etc. For example, Online Client-side
Javascript-implemented In-the-cloud programming editors are all the
rage now, they use a relatively small number of popular Javascript
edition engines under the hood, is there work to do to make sure OCaml
a first-class citizen there?

On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Louis Gesbert
<louis.gesbert@ocamlpro.com> wrote:
> OCaml is definitely lacking in this area; I am at the moment working precisely
> on solving this issue, with a dedicated Gtk editor that runs on Linux, OSX and
> Windows. It is pretty basic at the moment but already has code edition and
> working toplevel interaction (no compilation or project yet).
>
> Release is intended in a few months from now, with sufficient features for
> beginners and students. If successful, it will then be extended to handle
> bigger projects (multi-file, build system integration, etc.).
>
> Until then, you may see the project's github page at
> https://github.com/OCamlPro/ocp-edit-simple (name temporary)
>
> --
> Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro
>
> Le Monday 11 February 2013 01:49:41, Martin DeMello a écrit :
>> I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a good
>> (beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and trying
>> out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:
>>
>> * vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want to
>> use them will know how to do it)
>> * anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and OSX,
>> and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
>> * anything that needed fiddling with config files just to install it
>> * anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently present
>> and configured (!)
>> * anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4
>>
>> I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and Geany won
>> out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being able to
>> find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a perfect
>> beginner-friendly experience.
>>
>> So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting Geany as
>> the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be happy
>> to write up a page on it and contribute it.
>>
>> martin
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Fabrice Le Fessant]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4580 bytes --]

Hi Gabriel,

   The goal of this editor is not to replace Emacs or VI, but to be part 
of a minimal distribution under Windows (by OCamlPro): the idea is that 
Windows users downloading OCaml should be able to start writing a simple 
OCaml program without installing anything else. Of course, under 
Linux/Mac OS X, or for bigger projects, they would be advised to use 
more powerful editors (Emacs, Vim, Notepad++, etc.).

   Moreover, the two paradigms are not incompatible: you can imagine two 
versions of the "editor", one version with an interface (GTK or 
whatever) to interact with beginners, another version with a 
argument/text interface, to interact with other editors, both providing 
the same set of functionalities (indentation, coloring, documentation, 
code navigation, etc.) through the same set of libraries, and why not a 
Javascript version through js_of_ocaml...

--Fabrice

On 02/11/2013 01:14 PM, Gabriel Scherer wrote:
> I must say I'm a bit dubious of dedicated editors: people prefer to
> use the tools they're familiar with from other languages, and I'm not
> really sure what the added value of a different tool would be. There
> have been attempts to write editors for OCaml (Cameleon{,2}, zed (
> https://github.com/diml/zed )...), so far none of them really gained
> traction.
>
> Volunteers work on whatever they fancy and I prefer not to interfere
> negatively -- though it's unclear in this case whether this is a
> personal side-project or an OCamlPro project. Moreover, all these
> efforts have led to interesting byproducts: various libraries from
> Cameleon (eg. ocaml-rss http://zoggy.github.com/ocamlrss/ ) and zed (
> and in particular the nice toplevel utop https://github.com/diml/utop
> ).
>
> That said, I would still feel more enthusiastic about a project that
> can be used with other tools people use ( this is a good property of
> ocp-indent for example ), or directly improving OCaml support about
> tools that already have a user base : syntax highlighting libraries
> for various editors, etc. For example, Online Client-side
> Javascript-implemented In-the-cloud programming editors are all the
> rage now, they use a relatively small number of popular Javascript
> edition engines under the hood, is there work to do to make sure OCaml
> a first-class citizen there?
>
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Louis Gesbert
> <louis.gesbert@ocamlpro.com> wrote:
>> OCaml is definitely lacking in this area; I am at the moment working precisely
>> on solving this issue, with a dedicated Gtk editor that runs on Linux, OSX and
>> Windows. It is pretty basic at the moment but already has code edition and
>> working toplevel interaction (no compilation or project yet).
>>
>> Release is intended in a few months from now, with sufficient features for
>> beginners and students. If successful, it will then be extended to handle
>> bigger projects (multi-file, build system integration, etc.).
>>
>> Until then, you may see the project's github page at
>> https://github.com/OCamlPro/ocp-edit-simple (name temporary)
>>
>> --
>> Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro
>>
>> Le Monday 11 February 2013 01:49:41, Martin DeMello a écrit :
>>> I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a good
>>> (beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and trying
>>> out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:
>>>
>>> * vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want to
>>> use them will know how to do it)
>>> * anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and OSX,
>>> and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
>>> * anything that needed fiddling with config files just to install it
>>> * anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently present
>>> and configured (!)
>>> * anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4
>>>
>>> I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and Geany won
>>> out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being able to
>>> find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a perfect
>>> beginner-friendly experience.
>>>
>>> So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting Geany as
>>> the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be happy
>>> to write up a page on it and contribute it.
>>>
>>> martin
>>
>> --
>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>

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Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Gabriel Scherer]

The OCaml installer for windows (
http://protz.github.com/ocaml-installer/ ) optionally downloads and
install Emacs, configured for OCaml use. Couldn't the same approach be
used to install Geany (or whatever modern-beginner-friendly existing
editor that works on Windows) on end-user systems?

On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Fabrice Le Fessant
<Fabrice.Le_fessant@inria.fr> wrote:
> Hi Gabriel,
>
>   The goal of this editor is not to replace Emacs or VI, but to be part of a
> minimal distribution under Windows (by OCamlPro): the idea is that Windows
> users downloading OCaml should be able to start writing a simple OCaml
> program without installing anything else. Of course, under Linux/Mac OS X,
> or for bigger projects, they would be advised to use more powerful editors
> (Emacs, Vim, Notepad++, etc.).
>
>   Moreover, the two paradigms are not incompatible: you can imagine two
> versions of the "editor", one version with an interface (GTK or whatever) to
> interact with beginners, another version with a argument/text interface, to
> interact with other editors, both providing the same set of functionalities
> (indentation, coloring, documentation, code navigation, etc.) through the
> same set of libraries, and why not a Javascript version through
> js_of_ocaml...
>
> --Fabrice
>
>
> On 02/11/2013 01:14 PM, Gabriel Scherer wrote:
>>
>> I must say I'm a bit dubious of dedicated editors: people prefer to
>> use the tools they're familiar with from other languages, and I'm not
>> really sure what the added value of a different tool would be. There
>> have been attempts to write editors for OCaml (Cameleon{,2}, zed (
>> https://github.com/diml/zed )...), so far none of them really gained
>> traction.
>>
>> Volunteers work on whatever they fancy and I prefer not to interfere
>> negatively -- though it's unclear in this case whether this is a
>> personal side-project or an OCamlPro project. Moreover, all these
>> efforts have led to interesting byproducts: various libraries from
>> Cameleon (eg. ocaml-rss http://zoggy.github.com/ocamlrss/ ) and zed (
>> and in particular the nice toplevel utop https://github.com/diml/utop
>> ).
>>
>> That said, I would still feel more enthusiastic about a project that
>> can be used with other tools people use ( this is a good property of
>> ocp-indent for example ), or directly improving OCaml support about
>> tools that already have a user base : syntax highlighting libraries
>> for various editors, etc. For example, Online Client-side
>> Javascript-implemented In-the-cloud programming editors are all the
>> rage now, they use a relatively small number of popular Javascript
>> edition engines under the hood, is there work to do to make sure OCaml
>> a first-class citizen there?
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Louis Gesbert
>> <louis.gesbert@ocamlpro.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> OCaml is definitely lacking in this area; I am at the moment working
>>> precisely
>>> on solving this issue, with a dedicated Gtk editor that runs on Linux,
>>> OSX and
>>> Windows. It is pretty basic at the moment but already has code edition
>>> and
>>> working toplevel interaction (no compilation or project yet).
>>>
>>> Release is intended in a few months from now, with sufficient features
>>> for
>>> beginners and students. If successful, it will then be extended to handle
>>> bigger projects (multi-file, build system integration, etc.).
>>>
>>> Until then, you may see the project's github page at
>>> https://github.com/OCamlPro/ocp-edit-simple (name temporary)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro
>>>
>>> Le Monday 11 February 2013 01:49:41, Martin DeMello a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a good
>>>> (beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and trying
>>>> out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:
>>>>
>>>> * vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want to
>>>> use them will know how to do it)
>>>> * anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and OSX,
>>>> and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
>>>> * anything that needed fiddling with config files just to install it
>>>> * anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently present
>>>> and configured (!)
>>>> * anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4
>>>>
>>>> I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and Geany won
>>>> out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being able to
>>>> find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a perfect
>>>> beginner-friendly experience.
>>>>
>>>> So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting Geany as
>>>> the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be happy
>>>> to write up a page on it and contribute it.
>>>>
>>>> martin
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
>>> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
>>> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
>>> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>>
>>
>

Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Fabrice Le Fessant]

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We are all using different editors, and sometimes, we are even using the 
same editor with different OCaml modes. The point is not to choose the 
editor beginners are going to use in the next 20 years, but to provide a 
minimal environment for beginners with OCaml.

Actually, many programmers use an editor specific to their language 
(Eclipse for Java, Charm for Python, etc.), because they often provide a 
better environment for that language than generic editors.

We decided to implement a new editor because we wanted to design the 
basic building blocks both for this simple editor, and to be useful to 
improve existing editors (Emacs, Vim, etc.).

--Fabrice

On 02/11/2013 01:59 PM, Gabriel Scherer wrote:
> The OCaml installer for windows (
> http://protz.github.com/ocaml-installer/ ) optionally downloads and
> install Emacs, configured for OCaml use. Couldn't the same approach be
> used to install Geany (or whatever modern-beginner-friendly existing
> editor that works on Windows) on end-user systems?
>
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Fabrice Le Fessant
> <Fabrice.Le_fessant@inria.fr> wrote:
>> Hi Gabriel,
>>
>>    The goal of this editor is not to replace Emacs or VI, but to be part of a
>> minimal distribution under Windows (by OCamlPro): the idea is that Windows
>> users downloading OCaml should be able to start writing a simple OCaml
>> program without installing anything else. Of course, under Linux/Mac OS X,
>> or for bigger projects, they would be advised to use more powerful editors
>> (Emacs, Vim, Notepad++, etc.).
>>
>>    Moreover, the two paradigms are not incompatible: you can imagine two
>> versions of the "editor", one version with an interface (GTK or whatever) to
>> interact with beginners, another version with a argument/text interface, to
>> interact with other editors, both providing the same set of functionalities
>> (indentation, coloring, documentation, code navigation, etc.) through the
>> same set of libraries, and why not a Javascript version through
>> js_of_ocaml...
>>
>> --Fabrice

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email;internet:fabrice.le_fessant@inria.fr
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Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Daniel Bünzli]

Le lundi, 11 février 2013 à 13:14, Gabriel Scherer a écrit :
> I must say I'm a bit dubious of dedicated editors: people prefer to
> use the tools they're familiar with from other languages, and I'm not
> really sure what the added value of a different tool would be.  

Yes, I would actually advise any beginner to take time to teach them once vim or emacs. Having done that they will have a tool they can use with almost any language under any circumstance (e.g. on a server via tty).

I really don't believe in language specific editors, you rarely program in a single language at the same time -- shell script, C, tex, xml, json, configuration files, etc.

Daniel

Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Martin DeMello]

Hi Louis,

That looks very interesting. Sorry if this seems like a rude question;
I truly don't mean it that way, but if your editor needs a few months
of work, why not work on a stripped-down interface for OCamlEditor
[http://ocamleditor.forge.ocamlcore.org/] instead? I remember when I
was learning web development I enjoyed using Evrsoft's "1st Page" IDE,
which had modes that would add or remove bits from the interface as
you progressed from beginner to power user, and something like that
would be very nice to have for OCaml.

martin

On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Louis Gesbert
<louis.gesbert@ocamlpro.com> wrote:
> OCaml is definitely lacking in this area; I am at the moment working precisely
> on solving this issue, with a dedicated Gtk editor that runs on Linux, OSX and
> Windows. It is pretty basic at the moment but already has code edition and
> working toplevel interaction (no compilation or project yet).
>
> Release is intended in a few months from now, with sufficient features for
> beginners and students. If successful, it will then be extended to handle
> bigger projects (multi-file, build system integration, etc.).
>
> Until then, you may see the project's github page at
> https://github.com/OCamlPro/ocp-edit-simple (name temporary)
>
> --
> Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro
>
> Le Monday 11 February 2013 01:49:41, Martin DeMello a écrit :
>> I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a good
>> (beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and trying
>> out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:
>>
>> * vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want to
>> use them will know how to do it)
>> * anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and OSX,
>> and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
>> * anything that needed fiddling with config files just to install it
>> * anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently present
>> and configured (!)
>> * anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4
>>
>> I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and Geany won
>> out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being able to
>> find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a perfect
>> beginner-friendly experience.
>>
>> So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting Geany as
>> the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be happy
>> to write up a page on it and contribute it.
>>
>> martin
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Louis Gesbert]

Hi,

No offence taken :). OCamlEditor indeed looks like a very interesting project, 
with lots of features already present. But the scope and project goals are not 
the same though, so I think ocp-editor still has a place on its own ;

One of our main goals is to make IDE bricks available publicly, so I think the 
projects can benefit to one another. I would be glad to borrow some widgets from 
OCamlEditor, and it could use automatic indentation or better toplevel process 
interaction.

If the author -- Francesco Tovagliari -- is around here, I would be glad to know 
how he feels about this ?

--
Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro

Le mardi 12 février 2013 00:24:36, Martin DeMello a écrit :
> Hi Louis,
> 
> That looks very interesting. Sorry if this seems like a rude question;
> I truly don't mean it that way, but if your editor needs a few months
> of work, why not work on a stripped-down interface for OCamlEditor
> [http://ocamleditor.forge.ocamlcore.org/] instead? I remember when I
> was learning web development I enjoyed using Evrsoft's "1st Page" IDE,
> which had modes that would add or remove bits from the interface as
> you progressed from beginner to power user, and something like that
> would be very nice to have for OCaml.
> 
> martin
> 
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Louis Gesbert
> 
> <louis.gesbert@ocamlpro.com> wrote:
> > OCaml is definitely lacking in this area; I am at the moment working
> > precisely on solving this issue, with a dedicated Gtk editor that runs
> > on Linux, OSX and Windows. It is pretty basic at the moment but already
> > has code edition and working toplevel interaction (no compilation or
> > project yet).
> > 
> > Release is intended in a few months from now, with sufficient features
> > for beginners and students. If successful, it will then be extended to
> > handle bigger projects (multi-file, build system integration, etc.).
> > 
> > Until then, you may see the project's github page at
> > https://github.com/OCamlPro/ocp-edit-simple (name temporary)
> > 
> > --
> > Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro
> > 
> > Le Monday 11 February 2013 01:49:41, Martin DeMello a écrit :
> >> I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a good
> >> (beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and trying
> >> out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:
> >> 
> >> * vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want to
> >> use them will know how to do it)
> >> * anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and OSX,
> >> and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
> >> * anything that needed fiddling with config files just to install it
> >> * anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently present
> >> and configured (!)
> >> * anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4
> >> 
> >> I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and Geany won
> >> out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being able to
> >> find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a perfect
> >> beginner-friendly experience.
> >> 
> >> So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting Geany as
> >> the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be happy
> >> to write up a page on it and contribute it.
> >> 
> >> martin
> > 
> > --
> > Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

RE: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

[Jon Harrop]

I tried to do something similar once but the experience of trying to write
even the simplest GUI app using OCaml was horrific using Emacs and I gave
up. In contrast, I often develop GUI apps using F# and it is very easy. The
main difference is having an IDE (Visual Studio) with Intellisense so you
can explore APIs interactively from the editor without having to go back and
forth between Emacs and OCamlBrowser (a nice tool but completely
unintegrated).

So this is a chicken and egg problem: writing GUI apps is much harder in
OCaml than it could be with a GUI app to help you write GUI apps in OCaml.

I do think this is the right problem to be attacking though. OCaml could be
a fantastic language for GUI development thanks to polymorphic variants and
so on. The marriage of a metalanguage with good GUI support is incredibly
powerful.

Cheers,
Jon.

-----Original Message-----
From: caml-list-request@inria.fr [mailto:caml-list-request@inria.fr] On
Behalf Of Louis Gesbert
Sent: 11 February 2013 11:41
To: caml-list@inria.fr
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] geany as an ocaml ide

OCaml is definitely lacking in this area; I am at the moment working
precisely on solving this issue, with a dedicated Gtk editor that runs on
Linux, OSX and Windows. It is pretty basic at the moment but already has
code edition and working toplevel interaction (no compilation or project
yet).

Release is intended in a few months from now, with sufficient features for
beginners and students. If successful, it will then be extended to handle
bigger projects (multi-file, build system integration, etc.).

Until then, you may see the project's github page at
https://github.com/OCamlPro/ocp-edit-simple (name temporary)

--
Louis Gesbert, OCamlPro

Le Monday 11 February 2013 01:49:41, Martin DeMello a écrit :
> I spent some time last night going through all the "what is a good
> (beginner's) ide for ocaml?" threads I could find online, and trying 
> out the various options suggested. I ruled out the following:
> 
> * vim, emacs and eclipse (not beginner-friendly; people who want to 
> use them will know how to do it)
> * anything that did not provide a binary install for Windows and OSX, 
> and wasn't a simple configure/make/make install on linux
> * anything that needed fiddling with config files just to install it
> * anything that needed the OCaml sources to be independently present 
> and configured (!)
> * anything that was abandoned, or didn't seem to support OCaml 4
> 
> I was left with Geany and Komodo Edit as possibilities, and Geany won 
> out by letting me open up a test.ml file and immediately being able to 
> find and run the OCaml compiler. At least on Linux, it was a perfect 
> beginner-friendly experience.
> 
> So what do people think about ocaml.org officially promoting Geany as 
> the answer to "I'm learning OCaml; what is a good IDE?"? I'd be happy 
> to write up a page on it and contribute it.
> 
> martin

--
Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs=