From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id EAA18092; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 04:51:16 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA18726 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 04:51:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (outbound28-2.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.160]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id i7N2pDRM018873 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2004 04:51:14 +0200 Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (smtp03.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.123]) by smtpout06.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAUUY62AUFR9CS for (sender ); Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 7073 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2004 02:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vangogh) (66.52.242.79) by smtp03.lax.untd.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2004 02:50:32 -0000 From: "Brandon J. Van Every" To: "caml" Subject: RE: [Caml-list] Some logo for your OCaml related websites Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:01:18 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4128CFBC.9000500@laposte.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-ContentStamp: 16:8:1183122360 X-MAIL-INFO: 2b3d29bd0944a5e12dd59064b0ade1299020e5f9d46459c0eda961ada000a45059b1a955b12449c9d02df43450b4997140d1b1a43119edb42140bd217d6ddd4541253ded381501b5b5118555257d0134c1c1e1d974f584bdbda160140d9d84053d3dc9a5f5e92d05ad203de1e1b4e05984e5adcd75dded5ded452141215d19347d397415a431b050a9ed0479b97914c1d9c1b9604d80f581 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: CI84cOLHFqh7Zd2QWkwvEFvwyO3T/pIsFsCrOjjLH87feAwdS1t7P2pp+lLxM2wB X-Miltered: at concorde with ID 41295BA1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Spam: no; 0.00; brandon:99 caml-list:01 reynolds:01 counsel:99 retired:99 smoking:99 python:01 abstractly:01 snake:99 camels:01 abstractions:01 cough:01 python:01 doomed:01 camels:01 Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk Olivier Grisel wrote: > Benjamin Geer a écrit : > > > > I don't think it would help. The shape of the camel face > > (even without > > the sunglasses) is what makes it Joe Camel. This was the > > intention of > > the OCaml team when they chose this logo, apparently as a > > joke (in very bad taste, I think). > > > > I think OCaml needs a completely new logo. Yep. The proferred logo is a clear violation of R.J.Reynolds Tobacco's trademark. It can't be used for serious marketing of OCaml, the legal liabilities are obvious. (N.B. My Dad was General Counsel for R.J.R. Tobacco International for many years and retired as the arch spin doctor! Makin' the world safe for smoking since 1981.) > > The problem of how to make it different from the Perl logo is > > interesting. Actually O'Reilly has a trademark on the use > > of a camel to represent a programming language: > > > > http://perl.oreilly.com/usage When I was working on various logo concepts for Python, we realized there were 3 ways to treat an animal: - realistically - comically - abstractly We worked on graphical abstracitons of snakes because (1) we knew some people would have negative associations with realistic snakes, (2) we were trying to appeal to 'suits' and they wouldn't like cutesy stuff. After many design iterations, we arrived at http://www.pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-oct05.png The use of the snake is rather subtle. I would suggest working on abstracitons of camels, so as to keep it 'clean' for suit consumption, and all the moreso because Functional Programming is about providing better abstractions. If anyone actually has digital art talent and wants to work on this, I'd be happy to start a mailing list called 'ocaml-marketing'. My own digital art skills are exceedingly limited. What I can offer is: I have ok traditional art skills, a critical eye, and I've been through this kind of logo creation process before. My own bad logo submissions were what got better artists to do real work to cough up real logos. Sort of a "put up or shut up" approach. Getting INRIA's buy-in on any branding effort is key, as they probably have legal control over how OCaml might be trademarked. We utterly failed to secure the Python Software Foundation's buy-in, and consequently all our hard work was torpedoed. I see securing the blessing of the controlling organization as far more important than the logo itself. Given a blessing, an acceptable logo can always be arrived at. Without a blessing, all logo efforts are doomed. > > Another alternative would be to make a logo that doesn't > > represent a camel at all. I think it would be a huge mistake to blow off the memorization value of camels for OCaml. What you want is a camel that doesn't cause any confusion with regards to O'Reilly's trademark. Again, try abstractions. For instance, you could use just the hump of a camel. Now let's find out if the Bayesian filter is going to bitch and complain about the oddness of this post compared to other caml-list posts. Since you're reading this, I guess not! That leaves only the humans... Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com Brand*n Van Every S*attle, WA Praise Be to the caml-list Bayesian filter! It blesseth my postings, it is evil crap! evil crap! Bigarray! Unboxed overhead group! Wondering! chant chant chant... // return an array of 100 packed tuples temps int $[tvar0][2*100]; // what the c function needs value $[tvar1]; // one int value $[tvar2]; // one tuple int $[tvar3] // loop control var oncePre eachPre $[cvar0]=&($[tvar0][0]); eachPost $[lvar0] = alloc(2*100, 0 /*NB: zero-tagged block*/ ); for(int $[tvar3]=0;$[tvar3]<100;$[tvar3]++) { $[tvar2] = alloc_tuple(2); $[tvar1] = Val_int($[cvar0][0+2*$[tvar3]]); Store_field($[tvar2],0,$[tvar1]); $[tvar1] = Val_int($[cvar0][1]); Store_field($[tvar2],1,$[tvar1+2*$[tvar3]]); Array_store($[lvar0],$[tvar3],$[tvar0]); } oncePost ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners