From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id KAA27240; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:55:13 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01230 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:55:12 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (outbound28-2.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.160]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.13.0/8.13.0) with SMTP id i7V8tAvu023287 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:55:11 +0200 Received: from outbound28-2.lax.untd.com (smtp04.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.124]) by smtpout05.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABAVJRGXAKYWWU2 for (sender ); Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 22116 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2004 08:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vangogh) (66.52.250.28) by smtp04.lax.untd.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2004 08:54:30 -0000 From: "Brandon J. Van Every" To: "caml" Subject: RE: [Caml-list] Cross-compiling OCaml Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 02:05:25 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <766DFB05-FB1D-11D8-97E9-000A958FF2FE@wetware.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-ContentStamp: 15:7:762027728 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: CI84cOLHFqh7Zd2QWkwvEFvwyO3T/pIsFsCrOjjLH87TjG0ljqpxgm4an+WWiicv X-Miltered: at nez-perce with ID 41343CEE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Loop: caml-list@inria.fr X-Spam: no; 0.00; brandon:99 caml-list:01 woodyatt:01 brandon:99 sven:01 luther:01 mingw:01 objecting:01 sven:01 sourceforge:01 wetware:01 jhw:01 digging:01 organizer:99 sourceforge:01 Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk james woodyatt wrote: > Brandon J. Van Every wrote: > > Sven Luther wrote: > >> > >> This would indeed be a great great additional functionality. > > > > Well, speaking as a Windows-centric guy, I'd rather people just put > > their time into good Windows support. [...] > > I'd rather that the Windows-centric guys on the list put their time > into good Windows support for Ocaml, No problem. As I said, I realize Linux / mingw guys aren't into this. I'm just objecting to the statement that Linux cross-compilation support "would indeed be a great great additional functionality." As far as core Windows developers are concerned, and getting OCaml adopted by them, this is irrelevant. This is relevant to Linuxers who don't want to deal with Windows, but nevertheless want a token level of support for their apps on Windows. > rather than continually harping at people like me, I didn't harp at you. I don't think I even harped at Sven. > who couldn't give a rat's patootie whether the existing > level of support for Windows improves any time soon. I think the reason you should care is because Windows is a big platform with a lot of users. If you want to see the use of OCaml grow, so that there's more OCaml stuff available for all of us, and more paying OCaml jobs, then growth on the Windows platform is important. Of course, some people don't have a platform-neutral world view. Some people want Windows to die, more than anything else. My own view is I just want platforms to be rendered irrelevant. In the real world that means various engineering compromises, because platforms aren't the same. > I haven't ported my Cf library to Windows because I don't have a > Windows box and I'm not a Windows developer. I put forward a > call for > Windows-centric guys on this list over a year ago to help me get my > library ported and compiling under Microsoft Visual-C with > the straight > Windows Ocaml port. I have had not a single ping on the > subject. Well, it's only by archive searching that I'm remembering anything about your library. I don't remember what it does, and the words "Cf" and "Pagoda" don't stick in my mind as descriptive terms. I only remember someone posting recently about a "Core Foundation" library. Several people didn't understand from the announcement text what the library was supposed to do. I only remember the announcement because I crossed it again while Googling about Cf, per this discussion. Some of the archives I've crossed indicate that Cf may have no users at all, not just a lack of interest from Windows users. Have you achieved a core of Linux users yet? Nobody's going to bother to port stuff to Windows when the library hasn't proven its utility. Also, it helps to have a Sourceforge CVS project or the equivalent. http://www.wetware.com/jhw/src/ is digging. You may actually be a very effective organizer, with wonderful source code. But it doesn't look organized, it isn't publically indexed, it isn't publically source controlled, it isn't accessible in the way Sourceforge projects are. Also you have no webpage or mailing list for your project. > It's like they don't even notice, Should they have? Have you done some kind of exceptional effort to get the word out to everybody and anybody? Marketing is a hard problem. I don't know what you've actually done, but asking for volunteers once is not marketing. > and frankly— it's not like it really bugs > me. It just tells me that Windows-centric guys don't like my code. > That's fine. I don't like theirs all that much either. Your conclusion doesn't fit the available data. The available data is your project has hardly gotten off the ground. You have a recruitment problem. You haven't solved it, because you haven't established basic infrastructure for such recruitment. > Meanwhile, not a week goes by on this list without some > Windows-centric > guy complaining about the vacuum of Windows support for Ocaml. I'm > starting to believe the problem is that Windows-centric guys are lazy > bums who whine too much about what other people choose to do > with their > time when they should be spending their own time coding on > things that are important to them. Should I fault you for the public administration of your project? I'll choose not to, if you choose not to blame 'Windows whiners' for your project status. Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com Brand*n Van Every S*attle, WA Praise Be to the caml-list Bayesian filter! It blesseth my postings, it is evil crap! evil crap! Bigarray! Unboxed overhead group! Wondering! chant chant chant... Is my technical content showing? // return an array of 100 packed tuples temps int $[tvar0][2*100]; // what the c function needs value $[tvar1]; // one int value $[tvar2]; // one tuple int $[tvar3] // loop control var oncePre eachPre $[cvar0]=&($[tvar0][0]); eachPost $[lvar0] = alloc(2*100, 0 /*NB: zero-tagged block*/ ); for(int $[tvar3]=0;$[tvar3]<100;$[tvar3]++) { $[tvar2] = alloc_tuple(2); $[tvar1] = Val_int($[cvar0][0+2*$[tvar3]]); Store_field($[tvar2],0,$[tvar1]); $[tvar1] = Val_int($[cvar0][1]); Store_field($[tvar2],1,$[tvar1+2*$[tvar3]]); Array_store($[lvar0],$[tvar3],$[tvar0]); } oncePost ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners