From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id WAA26141; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:48:41 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: pauillac.inria.fr: majordomo set sender to owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr using -f Received: (from xleroy@localhost) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) id WAA26581 for caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:48:40 +0100 (MET) Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78]) by pauillac.inria.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA03533 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:46:53 +0100 (MET) Received: from hotmail.com (f18.pav3.hotmail.com [64.4.39.18]) by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id h1S8kqH02425 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:46:52 +0100 (MET) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 00:46:51 -0800 Received: from 12.212.86.241 by pv3fd.pav3.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:46:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [12.212.86.241] From: "Nikolaj Bjorner" To: caml-list@inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Alternative proposal: COAN [Chet Murthy] Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 00:46:51 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2003 08:46:51.0666 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0262F20:01C2DF05] Sender: owner-caml-list@pauillac.inria.fr Precedence: bulk I can't help replying to this thread on the ocaml-list (and not some other secondary list on libraries, which I don't subscribe to yet) with some remarks to hopefully inspire the library/packaging effort. 1. The module system is great, although I never could completely submit to that file names dictated a module name (indoctrinated by SML). 2. I can download Python with COM extensions in about 10 minutes and show colleagues how to script applications after about 2 minutes. I can then link against a pretty impressive Python library without skipping a beat. Simple things are easy in Python. Python scripts can be read and written (not as in Perl, which is a write-once read-never language, including my own Perl scripts). On the other hand, I spent days in vain trying to install, for instance, the image manipulation libraries of ocaml, because I thought it would be cool to use to automatically make a large collection of family photos smaller. No such luck under Cygwin/NT. The show-stopper was, as I remember, some kind of limitation with the lib/link utility under ocaml, which does not work from cygwin or NT, or any of the other ocaml/win releases that I tried out (there are 3). I would happily use ocaml for scripting jobs, if it were as easy to link against special purpose libraries. Example: compression is Python: "import zlib", then use "zlib.compress", et.c.. either in a file or from the read-eval loop. Compression in Ocaml: [for non-linux:] download zlib. from www.zlib.org. Install it. Download Xavier's transform, crypto, compress package. build/link it with zlib/install it. If you are lucky/skillful, you are now ready to go. Very often, when I attempt to "play" with some ocaml library, I end up having to hack makefiles that are not entirely portable. One very positive experience I have had, was with CM (of SML/NJ), which surely makes many things a lot more streamlined, although it does not by itself address mixed code (c source, c libraries, et.c), features of findlib. et.c. I find this packagability/portability/usability problem as a pretty high barrier to furthering use of contributions to ocaml (or at least it is for people who master makefile hacking as poorly as I do). It would also truly crack me up when I see somebody package the libraries with WSDL and provide a web service to find and install libraries on demand. Nikolaj _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------- To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/ Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners