From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_NEUTRAL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 Received: from mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.105]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B0ABBC4 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:34:42 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnkAAN8z00mAktiGkWdsb2JhbACWFAEBAQEJCwoHEQSqbYcXiE2DewY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.39,307,1235948400"; d="scan'208";a="37666144" Received: from defang20.it.ohio-state.edu ([128.146.216.134]) by mail4-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 01 Apr 2009 18:34:41 +0200 Received: from defang6.it.ohio-state.edu (defang6.it.ohio-state.edu [128.146.216.86]) by defang20.it.ohio-state.edu (8.13.7/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n31GYZ58013881; Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:34:35 -0400 Received: from dhcp-128-146-179-108.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu (dhcp-128-146-179-108.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu [128.146.179.108]) by defang6.it.ohio-state.edu (8.13.7/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n31GYXe2028599; Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:34:33 -0400 Cc: caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Message-Id: From: Kuba Ober To: gilles.falcon@orange-ftgroup.com In-Reply-To: <49D3305C.3020802@orange-ftgroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: [Caml-list] questions Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:29:48 -0400 References: <364f41440903241242v6dd2244fkbbd1ea8e3b20af60@mail.gmail.com> <"a a6b5cbe0903271514m5ac05c6ge705478c2cd974a7"@mail.gmail.com> <3091E0E6-226B-4F4A-A78C-E523C250B8D5@osu.edu> <49D2455A.1070802@inria.fr> <49D3305C.3020802@orange-ftgroup.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-CanItPRO-Stream: outbound X-Canit-Stats-ID: Bayes signature not available X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.146.216.134 X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocaml:01 arbitrarily:01 arrays:01 ocaml:01 ml-like:01 cheers:01 lesson:98 caml-list:01 portions:01 caml:02 usages:02 seems:03 seems:03 languages:03 pattern:04 > Hi, > > When M. Ober say the official material is of poor quality. i am > French and really surprise. > I saw Xavier Leroy teach caml at the CNAM in france, and he know how > to teach. > The official document is not an ocaml curse, that's right. (The > inria is not pay for that ) I have given recently one example of how the information about a simple topic -- lists -- is rather arbitrarily split up and distributed across different portions of the manual. It seems that same could be said of almost any other randomly chosen basic topic (arrays, types, pattern matching, etc). I don't think that's how you write good manuals, but that's merely my opinion, and the only way I can explain it better is to give examples of what I consider good manuals, which I did in the post I mentioned. > I totally agree that it would be pleasant to have more documentation > on Ocaml, especially if you don't have ocaml lesson. Having or not having OCaml lessons is pretty much irrelevant here. Your assumption here is, perhaps, that you remember everything you are taught. When you're an occasional user, like I am, I constantly forget, and that amplifies any shortcomings in the manual, as I have to deal with them repeatedly. Of course I then write down some notes, and look there first, but this does not affect the manual. There are many similar ways things can be done in ML-like languages. Understanding of the underlying methodology is one thing, but OCaml is a concrete implementation and if I forget a way some particular thing is done, it doesn't help much that I have general knowledge of that thing. I still must look it up :) > The reader are a little like you M. Ober, they like good quality and > when a book is not as good as they like, they have the same reaction > as you. > I am disappointed because it is not the better encouragement. > Different views and usages of the language seems to me better than > too few. Encouragement to whom? I'm trying to discuss facts, if that's so bothersome then I can't really help it. My motive is not to offend anyone nor to diminish the excellent work otherwise done by the OCaml team. I'm trying to understand why the manual is so bad -- that's all. I know the realities of life, and that sometimes things cannot be done perfectly even if one so wishes -- I went down that road many times. That's just how it is, I know. What I didn't expect is the religious fervor of the replies -- it's an interesting thing to observe and learn about! Cheers, Kuba