From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6671781799 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 08:50:33 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of gabriel.scherer@gmail.com) identity=pra; client-ip=209.85.214.52; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="gabriel.scherer@gmail.com"; x-sender="gabriel.scherer@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of gabriel.scherer@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.52 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.214.52; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="gabriel.scherer@gmail.com"; x-sender="gabriel.scherer@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@mail-bk0-f52.google.com) identity=helo; client-ip=209.85.214.52; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="gabriel.scherer@gmail.com"; x-sender="postmaster@mail-bk0-f52.google.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap0BAHMm7lHRVdY0k2dsb2JhbABbgztQrhWSI4EHCBYOAQEBAQcLCwkUBCSCJAEBBUABGxILAQMMBgULDQ0hIgERAQUBCgQBDQYTEgKHaQEDDwyaRYxPgn+EYgoZJwMKZId0AQUMj1QzB4N+A5ddgSmOPxYphDo6 X-IPAS-Result: Ap0BAHMm7lHRVdY0k2dsb2JhbABbgztQrhWSI4EHCBYOAQEBAQcLCwkUBCSCJAEBBUABGxILAQMMBgULDQ0hIgERAQUBCgQBDQYTEgKHaQEDDwyaRYxPgn+EYgoZJwMKZId0AQUMj1QzB4N+A5ddgSmOPxYphDo6 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,725,1367964000"; d="scan'208";a="21965784" Received: from mail-bk0-f52.google.com ([209.85.214.52]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 23 Jul 2013 08:50:32 +0200 Received: by mail-bk0-f52.google.com with SMTP id d7so2830520bkh.25 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 23:50:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uVa4TYd3soLdclwf2jrre/5jYg25UKQWEFVKJY/lvXw=; b=U3LM5noLNx4q45c4UOu1VnL22SI0qWUykFLsF1F6oGM1bmRmoaa6y1feiu3xl0e5No olK+HaMg/RCFrXdb76uSbB1PMXjcHEpZdjW1O+5WeelRG1/bC1JGuqyAtoZ6LbGB3/sJ cZTpUCKMfwmZiOJRFT6lA8OVFxNsuyDl3CRnrnzO5lXTyjXvvsggpS9ajsHZJ1yHmb8x MmunUxnr5/drfBa6i7OFhob6WHWpMYGp94wwlOKfSXTsbg408nlmAJu260G63x2RKqs/ MWdQM8cDckC45HMRRDaaaZJ/5j//flOhq9t4fUaopzuZJZFLn09m7NNM6mI4ktVk6jnd FSow== X-Received: by 10.204.79.70 with SMTP id o6mr4255493bkk.94.1374562231816; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 23:50:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.20.131 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 23:49:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9682B571-11D0-4B1D-A8A4-6074E98C7519@recoil.org> References: <1e141e2803d9dec6a8231dd4f16dd173.squirrel@gps.dynxs.de> <9682B571-11D0-4B1D-A8A4-6074E98C7519@recoil.org> From: Gabriel Scherer Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 08:49:51 +0200 Message-ID: To: Anil Madhavapeddy Cc: Gerd Stolpmann , caml-list@inria.fr, godi-list@ocaml-programming.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Caml-list] GODI is shutting down On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Anil Madhavapeddy wrote: > Instead of doing such a heroic solo job (which I'm not being funny about = -- > it really is a lot of work), why not spend the time to open up GODI as we= ll? > > Most of the OPAM package descriptions come from *other people*. We just r= eview > them, give feedback if necessary, click the merge button and fix errors t= hat > creep through. And even that takes up a surprising amount of time... To be fair, I never felt GODI to be a closed system. There are in fact a reasonable number that were packaged by someone else than Gerd (see http://godi.camlcity.org/godi/packages.html , the "released by" field on packages; several were packaged by Virgile Prevosto, for example). It's more that the packaging for GODI is a bit more difficult, and probably just as importantly as there never was a strong community dynamics to contribute to GODI packaging. It is now the norm that everyone should write a META file for ocamlfind, and it is becoming the norm to package for OPAM, but GODI probably came too early at a time where developers expected distributions to do the packaging work (which Debian and Fedora still do superbly), and there never was much of a community dynamics for GODI packaging. And implementation-wise, I have had the pleasure of interacting with Gerd a couple of time to discuss possible changes to ocamlfind, and I did not get the impression that the project was "closed"; I'm quite sure anyone could contribute (or have contributed) to GODI with a well-justified, good-looking patch. On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Anil Madhavapeddy wrote: > On 22 Jul 2013, at 22:21, "Gerd Stolpmann" wrote: > >> There is also another point that was driving me mad in the past weeks, >> namely missing respect from the OPAM guys. Given the fact that OPAM is >> only a thin layer around ocamlfind (and guess who wrote it), and given t= he >> fact that GODI was pioneering in many fields, I was expecting nicer >> wordings, and less dumb campaigning ("we have 400 packages, and you only >> 170"). OPAM is only harvesting what I seeded many years ago. > > So when you describe the virtues of GODI, you call it 'advocating', and w= hen > Fabrice describes the virtues of OPAM, it's 'dumb campaigning'. This is > splendidly reminiscent of US politics! > > I don't find any of this source-based package management particularly nov= el. > I've worked in the OpenBSD ports tree since the late 90s, and it's way ah= ead > of either OPAM or GODI. I think where OPAM contributes most over any other > source manager are the three points on the front page that I iterated ear= lier > in this thread: > > - multiple simultaneous compiler installations. > - flexible package constraints. > - a Git-friendly development workflow. > > The first is very useful, but PATH munging is certainly not novel. The Git > workflow is heavily inspired by Homebrew. > > The constraint solver has seen a tremendous amount of work though: > there's one version built into OPAM (tweaked relentlessly by Thomas with > heuristics), and the external CUDF solvers from the Mancoosi project which > are magically accurate (but not yet integrated by default until they are > packaged on different repositories). > > Anyway, I'm not a GODI user, but I think you're doing a disservice to your > loyal GODI users if you shut it down in a huff. There are features (notab= ly > Windows support) where it'll take OPAM some time to catch up. I think th= at > the real reason that you're shutting it is nothing to do with "respect", = but > is good old-fashioned burnt-out: > >> Although there are still a lot of GODI users, it is unavoidable to shut = GODI down due to lack of supporters, especially package developers. I was m= ore or less alone in the past months, and my time contingent will not allow= it to do the upgrade to OCaml 4.01 alone (when it is released). > > Instead of doing such a heroic solo job (which I'm not being funny about = -- > it really is a lot of work), why not spend the time to open up GODI as we= ll? > > Most of the OPAM package descriptions come from *other people*. We just r= eview > them, give feedback if necessary, click the merge button and fix errors t= hat > creep through. And even that takes up a surprising amount of time... > > -anil > -- > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs