From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by walapai.inria.fr (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id pAGIHIrv002929 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:17:18 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah8CAGT9w07RVdY2kGdsb2JhbABDmgOEfYMJAYUOgmEIIgEBAQEJCQ0HFAQhgXIBAQEDARICLAEbEgsBAwELBgULDQ0hIQEBEQEFAQoEAQ0ZEgkHh2AIm3MKi2GCZoUuPYhxAgUKg0+GPgSCW4U5jCCKS4MCPYQS X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.69,522,1315173600"; d="scan'208";a="130961155" Received: from mail-bw0-f54.google.com ([209.85.214.54]) by mail1-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 16 Nov 2011 19:17:12 +0100 Received: by bkbzs8 with SMTP id zs8so1610705bkb.27 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:16:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=KczSR0eb5XQKCZVqGxCVmjeDbf8zjlYE2if0p1MN43I=; b=sqllu1vFEhJ+rMK0WIsTpfJNbALbWP6i3Nm0PZCFvYoIudXJzY5iq+Q5h9ysFOSiCy SgcO27C9udCAi0i29niDoYgut1G40IsBleEdL0sZ68GIZftMpxeDAoufq6LSDL+iDgLy QRIGiY9KnO0E/nMY3HYrHoxIlbluuyA8r82ow= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.133.197 with SMTP id g5mr29832775bkt.43.1321467413181; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.6.210 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:16:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4EC23672.7070709@gmail.com> <1321370897.43865.YahooMailNeo@web111510.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:16:52 -0700 Message-ID: From: Anthony Tavener To: romerun@gmail.com Cc: "caml-list@inria.fr" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151761c92abeb70504b1de1b8e Subject: Re: [Caml-list] How to fail to install Ocaml in 18 steps --00151761c92abeb70504b1de1b8e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I saw this as a "user experience report" (as stated), not really asking for a solution. The number of different suggestions for how to "install" OCaml has been quite telling... this is similar to the confusion I find most times I look for existing libraries: multiple options for similar things with no good way to tell whats applicable without actually trying them. People are working on pieces of the "OCaml experience" which are in this report. I figured the original post was a broadcast in hopes the appropriate people might glean hints from a fresh user's run through the rat-maze. If the Norton AV issue is known, and the solution (which I can agree with) is: kill Norton AV, then maybe some warning for Windows users, at the site of the binary installer, that this is a known problem and what the solution is? (Mind you, some people won't have such control over the machine and have no option but running the local antivirus.) Also, I can agree that running Linux is an excellent choice... but really, I'm fine with most of the world running other OS's. Linux becomes like the others the more widespread it's adoption. I understand a lot of work has been done to simplify installation, but sometimes people hit an edge case which sends them spinning into a nosedive. Ideally a smooth landing can be had regardless of weather conditions. Some of those edge cases will be found in the wild, by users. Just my take on it, :) Tony On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 6:44 AM, Komtanoo Pinpimai wrote: > The easiest solution for your situation as of right now would be > making a vm image that has everything installed, ocaml, eclipse, > ocaide etc. and distribute it to everybody. > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Andrej Bauer > wrote: > > Switching to a different operating system, or running a different > > operating system in a virtual machine is NOT the most obvious solution > > to normal people (everyone on this mailing list excluded). While I > > agree with what Dario says in principle, I am convinced that people > > aren't that keen on using Gnome/GTK gui inside Virtual box running on > > a Windows 7. > > > > Realistically, there is just no easy way to install Ocaml on Windows > > from what I've learned. > > > > With kind regards, > > > > Andrej > > > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Dario Teixeira > wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >>> I was shocked to learn that you cannot set it so that it only warns > >> > >>> about suspicous files. It actually instists on deleting them! I asked > >>> my student what Norton will do with his Ph.D. dissertation if it is > >>> judged to have too low a reputation, and he just faintly smiled. I > >>> will try to get his boss to buy him a Mac. > >> > >> But if switching to a Mac is a solution on the table, that means that > your > >> student does not actually need OCaml running on Windows. What they > >> need is OCaml, and they just happen to be using Windows as their OS. > >> However, if this is the case, then it seems you did pick the most > convoluted > >> approach. As others have mentioned, why not just install a > free-as-in-beer > >> and easy to use virtualisation software like Virtualbox and use it to > run a Linux > >> distro where OCaml is just an apt-get away? > >> > >> Mind you, I'm not saying you don't have a point regarding the > complexity of > >> installing OCaml on Windows (I wouldn't know). Nevertheless, it does > strike me > >> that you are bending over backwards to avoid what is the most > straightforward > >> solution in these cases: run OCaml in a Linux distro. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Dario Teixeira > >> > > > > > > -- > > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > > https://sympa-roc.inria.fr/wws/info/caml-list > > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs > > > > > > > > -- > In accordance with U.S. Treasury regulations, if this message contains > advice concerning one or more Federal tax issues, it is not a formal > legal opinion and may not be used by any person for the avoidance of > Federal tax penalties. > > > -- > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > https://sympa-roc.inria.fr/wws/info/caml-list > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs > > --00151761c92abeb70504b1de1b8e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I saw this as a "user experience report" (as stated), not really = asking for a solution.

The number of different suggestio= ns for how to "install" OCaml has been quite telling... this is s= imilar to the confusion I find most times I look for existing libraries: mu= ltiple options for similar things with no good way to tell whats applicable= without actually trying them.

People are working on pieces of the "OCaml experie= nce" which are in this report. I figured the original post was a broad= cast in hopes the appropriate people might glean hints from a fresh user= 9;s run through the rat-maze. If the Norton AV issue is known, and the solu= tion (which I can agree with) is: kill Norton AV, then maybe some warning f= or Windows users, at the site of the binary installer, that this is a known= problem and what the solution is? (Mind you, some people won't have su= ch control over the machine and have no option but running the local antivi= rus.) Also, I can agree that running Linux is an excellent choice... but re= ally, I'm fine with most of the world running other OS's. Linux bec= omes like the others the more widespread it's adoption.

I understand a lot of work has been done to simplify in= stallation, but sometimes people hit an edge case which sends them spinning= into a nosedive. Ideally a smooth landing can be had regardless of weather= conditions. Some of those edge cases will be found in the wild, by users.<= /div>

Just my take on it, :)

=A0Tony=



On Wed, Nov 16= , 2011 at 6:44 AM, Komtanoo Pinpimai <romerun@gmail.com> wrote:
The easiest solution for your situation as = of right now would be
making a vm image that has everything installed, ocaml, eclipse,
ocaide etc. and distribute it to everybody.

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Andrej Bauer <andrej.bauer@andrej.com> wrote:
> Switching to a different operating system, or running a different
> operating system in a virtual machine is NOT the most obvious solution=
> to normal people (everyone on this mailing list excluded). While I
> agree with what Dario says in principle, I am convinced that people
> aren't that keen on using Gnome/GTK gui inside Virtual box running= on
> a Windows 7.
>
> Realistically, there is just no easy way to install Ocaml on Windows > from what I've learned.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Andrej
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Dario Teixeira <darioteixeira@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>> I was shocked to learn that you cannot set it so that it only = warns
>>
>>> about suspicous files. It actually instists on deleting them! = I asked
>>> my student what Norton will do with his Ph.D. dissertation if = it is
>>> judged to have too low a reputation, and he just faintly smile= d. I
>>> will try to get his boss to buy him a Mac.
>>
>> But if switching to a Mac is a solution on the table, that means t= hat your
>> student does not actually need OCaml running on Windows.=A0 What t= hey
>> need is OCaml, and they just happen to be using Windows as their O= S.
>> However, if this is the case, then it seems you did pick the most = convoluted
>> approach.=A0 As others have mentioned, why not just install a free= -as-in-beer
>> and easy to use virtualisation software like Virtualbox and use it= to run a Linux
>> distro where OCaml is just an apt-get away?
>>
>> Mind you, I'm not saying you don't have a point regarding = the complexity of
>> installing OCaml on Windows (I wouldn't know).=A0 Nevertheless= , it does strike me
>> that you are bending over backwards to avoid what is the most stra= ightforward
>> solution in these cases: run OCaml in a Linux distro.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dario Teixeira
>>
>
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list. =A0Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa-roc.inria.fr/wws/info/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
>
>



--
In accordance with U.S. Treasury regulations, if this message contains
advice concerning one or more Federal tax issues, it is not a formal
legal opinion and may not be used by any person for the avoidance of
Federal tax penalties.


--
Caml-list mailing list. =A0Subscription management and archives:
https://sympa-roc.inria.fr/wws/info/caml-list
Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs


--00151761c92abeb70504b1de1b8e--