Re: [Caml-list] Build-/Installation-Tools - not enogh of them?

[Yawar Amin <yawar.amin@gmail.com>]

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But you still need an OCaml compiler, right? Are you not using opam to get
it? If you are, you already have opam. If you're not ... you will have a
tougher time than you need to :-) opam is the recommended installation
method by the OCaml team: http://ocaml.org/docs/install.html

Regards,

Yawar

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 3:34 PM Julia Lawall <julia.lawall@lip6.fr> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, Yawar Amin wrote:
>
> > Hi Julia, I agree that we need to simplify the life of the user. But
> that's
> > the developer's job, not the language toolchain. Users should not need to
> > know or care about OCaml (ideally), they should download and run binary
> > packages or install them through their operating system package manager.
> > Since it's not possible for many projects to provide all possible system
> > binaries to users, the fallback should be for the user to build the
> package
> > with clear instructions that they'll need to install opam and then
> > `opam build` (e.g.).
>
> Like the original poster, I would very much prefer something based on
> make.
>
> julia
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Yawar
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:59 AM Julia Lawall <julia.lawall@lip6.fr>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >       On Mon, 26 Nov 2018, Yawar Amin wrote:
> >
> >       > If anyone would like to chime in and say that OCaml build and
> >       packaging
> >       > system is not that complicated, I would recommend first
> >       looking
> >       > at https://github.com/rizo/awesome-ocaml#package-management
> >       . IMHO we need
> >       > to seriously look at consolidating efforts around OPAM for
> >       package
> >       > management, packaging, building, testing and running. All the
> >       serious
> >       > language-specific package managers do it, it's a proven
> >       strategy and it
> >       > simplifies life for the developer.
> >
> >       I find it odd that simplifying the life of the developer is the
> >       highest
> >       priority.  Doesn't one want to simplify the life of the user?
> >       Ideally the
> >       user who has never touched OCaml before in his life?
> >
> >       As a simple example, the web page for installing OCaml says that
> >       the
> >       recommended way to install ocaml is to install opam.  There is a
> >       link to a
> >       page explaining how to install opam.  How should anyone even
> >       have
> >       confidence that they will end up with OCaml after following
> >       those
> >       instructions?  Even step 1 of the installation process leads the
> >       user to
> >       confusion.
> >
> >       julia
> >
> >       >
> >       > This could be a typical workflow:
> >       >
> >       > cd some-ocaml-proj
> >       > opam install # Switches compiler if necessary and installs and
> >       locally
> >       > caches package dependencies
> >       > opam build
> >       > opam run # Automatically builds if necessary
> >       > opam test # Ditto
> >       > opam package # Ditto; --upload option can immediately upload
> >       to opam
> >       > opam doc # Builds documentation with ocamldoc or whatever
> >       > opam login -u user -p password
> >       >
> >       > Regards,
> >       >
> >       > Yawar
> >       >
> >       > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 5:15 AM Oliver Bandel
> >       <oliver@first.in-berlin.de>
> >       > wrote:
> >       >       Hello,
> >       >
> >       >       a while ago it looked like there were not enough build-
> >       and
> >       >       installation-tools
> >       >       for OCaml. I remember some discussions about that.
> >       >
> >       >       Now it seems to me that there are a lot of them.
> >       >       So, developers can pick the one they know about.
> >       >
> >       >       For all these tools there might be good reasons to use
> >       them, and
> >       >       those
> >       >       developers who looked at these tools and choose them for
> >       their
> >       >       projects, will
> >       >       know them well enough.
> >       >
> >       >       The situation differs, if one wants to package the
> >       written
> >       >       software,
> >       >       and one needs to know many of those tools, just to
> >       compile the
> >       >       stuff.
> >       >       So, when one just wants to compile and install some
> >       software,
> >       >       just for that, it would take much effort to learn the
> >       different
> >       >       build-tools.
> >       >
> >       >       So, packaging has become more complicated, even though
> >       for the
> >       >       developers
> >       >       these tools may save time.
> >       >
> >       >       It would be nice if people who used one of the many new
> >       building
> >       >       tools
> >       >       could provide a Makefile that allows just to type
> >       >       "make" and "make install", instead of expecting everyone
> >       who
> >       >       wants to compile
> >       >       the software to first learn just-another-build-tool.
> >       >
> >       >       Also it would be good, to mention early, which
> >       installation
> >       >       tools (make-dependencies)
> >       >       are in use, and too mention needed packages (opam or
> >       others) to
> >       >       just build the stuff.
> >       >
> >       >       Thanks and regards,
> >       >         Oliver Bandel
> >       >
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