Re: Problems to get larger user base ... (Re: [Caml-list] OCaml's variables)

[Jeff Meister <nanaki@gmail.com>]

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I hesitate to recommend Part I of the OCaml Manual as an introduction for
new users because it is so terse and dense. It describes the core language
on a single HTML page. Powerful features of great consequence are covered
rapidly. For example, variant types are relegated to a single section with
only three example types.

I do not mean to complain about the OCaml Manual; its succinctness is a
virtue. It assumes I am competent and does not waste my time. Nearly every
sentence in Part I conveys vital information and should be read carefully.
But people are not used to engaging with tutorials in this manner. They
expect motivation (explanation of the reasoning behind various features)
and hand-holding, which they can skip over or consult depending on their
level of understanding. Ideally, they want to see an example that does
something similar to whatever they're currently working on.

Most people actively involved in the OCaml community right now have either
read the language reference (i.e., Part II) or are capable of doing so if
they wanted to. Many of them have substantial background in programming
language theory. But the majority of programmers cannot learn the language
in this way. I think appealing to them requires a more didactic method.


On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Francois Berenger <berenger@riken.jp>wrote:

> On 05/28/2013 11:44 AM, oliver wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:17:04AM +0900, Francois Berenger wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/27/2013 09:38 PM, Mr. Herr wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 27.05.2013 10:53, schrieb Erik de Castro Lopo:
>>>>
>>>>> Mr. Herr wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the biggest problem is you generally can only learn FP and/or
>>>>>> Ocaml at
>>>>>> university, because:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The FP terminology is at first (and a long time after starting
>>>>>> learning it), without
>>>>>> a teacher, not understandable.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, that's simply not true.
>>>>>
>>>>> I studied my last univeristy course in 1992. I picked up Ocaml in 2004
>>>>> and Haskell in 2008. Before Ocaml, the only functional language I had
>>>>> used was scheme in the late 1980s.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Scheme is terribly functional, so to say, and is absolutely immerged in
>>>> the Lispy slang.
>>>> All your knowlegde in C, Java, PHP, Assembler, Tcl/Tk, Pascal ... will
>>>> not help you
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> I started as an IBM /370 Systems Admin in the late nineties, and it
>>>> took me months of
>>>> reading in 2012
>>>> to get some understanding about what the heck the scheme people are
>>>> talking about.
>>>>
>>>> Scheme is even a better example for the problems non university
>>>> learners encounter,
>>>> than Ocaml, IMO.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A very good book on scheme (which is also quite a deep introduction
>>> to computer science if you read the whole thing in fact):
>>>
>>> "structure and interpretation of computer programs"
>>>
>>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/**full-text/book/book.html<http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html>
>>>
>> [...]
>>
>> As language introduction it is too much text.
>> It is meant as introduction to computer science.
>>
>
> But what an introduction. ;)
>
>
>  AFAIK scheme was developed for this task.
>>
>> The scheme standard is not so hard to read, and it has only 50 pages.
>> Thats IMHO better if someone looks for a introduction to the language
>> only.
>>
>> For comparison: OCaml ref-man: 554 pages and IMHO not a good starting
>> point. IMHO better are some of the introductional books out there,
>> e.g. OCaml-Ora-book and jason Hickeys book.
>> After that then the Refman.
>>
>
> Honestly, I think "Part I An introduction to OCaml"
> from "The OCaml system release 4.00
> Documentation and user’s manual"
> at
> http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/**manual-ocaml/<http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/>
> is enough for a start.
>
> I think you can even skip the Objects chapter in there.
> And that's only pages 9 to 33 in the PDF version of the document.
>
> Regards,
> F.
>
>
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