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charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [Caml-list] IDE like PyCharm - Results I probably should stop procrastinating and port merlin to Qt Creator..... 2016-05-11 14:19 GMT+03:00 Allan Wegan : > > >>> Vim and Emacs are commandline editors - we got 2016 and IDEs for >>> other languages evolved to be GUI-driven out there. >> >> Actually, IDEs for other languages evolved to be GUIs more than 20 >> years ago, having recently had the "pleasure" of reinstalling >> Microsoft Visual C++ 4. > >> So calling Vim and Emacs users dated may not be a route to getting >> advice (belligerent maybe...) > > So i should not call Emacs outdated because that is too much an > understatement? English is not my first language - would "archaic" be > more appropriate? > > By the way i did not even called the users outdated - just the IDE. > Using outdated stuff is very popular by the youngsters where i live. We > call them hipsters - and they call it vintage. Nothing wrong with that. > I am not against using old Vectrex consoles and Emacs - i just do not > use it myself. And i really try to ensure, that everyone who did not get > the message the first time will have an increasing chance to get it in > each iteration of the > use-Emacs-its-great--nope-want-a-GUI-driven-solution cycle. That > drastically increases the possibility, that even the one without any > reading skill will get it at some point. He will sudeenly realize, that > i am obviously not interested in using Emacs and therefore trying to > advertise it again and again is just a waste of time. > > In hindsight i think i should have started with a flamewar against Emacs > - that would have gotten the message around much faster. But i don't > even hate Emacs - i just don't want to use it and therefore will not use it. > > And regarding getting advice - i got it from both - Emacs users and > non-Emacs users. I am actually pretty satisfied as i also got results my > internet search did not uncover. Sublime is really good. And OCamlEditor > seems to be worth some more tries too (just have to read more about > OCaml package management first). > >> If you'd like to whip up some funds for a port, I'm sure the >> community would be grateful. > > Of course i would like to do that - i guess most here would. And also as > most do, i have to pay my rent and food and then there is nothing left > to suppoort all the good things we all would like to support. > >> You are a priori assuming that all of us Vim and Emacs users have >> never seen or used Visual Studio (or Eclipse before). > > Nope - actually i asummed that you all know it and hate it for some > unknown reason (as it is the exact opposite of Emacs). As i really like > it, i used it as an Example for the almost perfect IDE i would wish to > have for OCaml. Just to be sure that everyone knows what i am searching for. > >> A better tack might be to name a feature of your favourite GUI IDE >> which you perceive as lacking in our terribly dated "command line" >> editors (I personally regard gVim as a GUI editor, the clue being in >> the 'g'). There's a chance it's on a wish-list; there's a chance >> there's a perfectly reasonable other way... > > The thing about software that is designed to be GUI-based from the start > is, that it really looks and feels like GUI-based. It does not look and > feel like terminal-based software that someone put into a window and > attached a toolbar to. I do not know if that difference is something i > really can describe good enough to get the point across - but it is the > same reason why Microsoft and Apple are "worth" billions of dollars on > the stock market. Its all about usability for the people who like > well-designed GUIs. That GUIs really sell well. There also are complete > Operating systems - and even hardware in case of Apple - below that > GUIs. But they are not the things that sell the product. > I really like GUIs for a lot of Tasks - including image editing and > coding. I also always got some terminal open too - but not for image > editing or coding. > >>> Too bad they did their own .Net-based functional >>> language instead of adopting OCaml... >> >> Although they did use OCaml as a starting point for that language. > > They grabbed something from here and there and then soaked it in their > disgusting .Net sauce (they instantly got a huge standard library and > community that way but i want the real thing). > > > > -- > Allan Wegan > > Jabber: allanwegan@ffnord.net > OTR-Fingerprint: E4DCAA40 4859428E B3912896 F2498604 8CAA126F > Jabber: allanwegan@jabber.ccc.de > OTR-Fingerprint: A1AAA1B9 C067F988 4A424D33 98343469 29164587 > ICQ: 209459114 > OTR-Fingerprint: 71DE5B5E 67D6D758 A93BF1CE 7DA06625 205AC6EC >