From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 227797EE80 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 12:05:47 +0100 (CET) Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of adrian.alexander.may@gmail.com) identity=pra; client-ip=209.85.214.42; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="adrian.alexander.may@gmail.com"; x-sender="adrian.alexander.may@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: Pass (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: domain of adrian.alexander.may@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.42 as permitted sender) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.214.42; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="adrian.alexander.may@gmail.com"; x-sender="adrian.alexander.may@gmail.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible; x-record-type="v=spf1" Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@mail-bk0-f42.google.com) identity=helo; client-ip=209.85.214.42; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="adrian.alexander.may@gmail.com"; x-sender="postmaster@mail-bk0-f42.google.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuICAOPzRlHRVdYqiGdsb2JhbABDiCaqcYleAYgxgVEIFg4BAQEKCRQUBCSCJAEBBAEjBBkBGxILAQMBCwYFBAcNDR0CAiEBAREBBQEKEgYTEodvAQMJBgyjO4tjT4J7hBoKGScDClmIfAEFDIxAgkUEB4ItgRMDiHOMC4FggR+KSYM4FimEOi8 X-IPAS-Result: AuICAOPzRlHRVdYqiGdsb2JhbABDiCaqcYleAYgxgVEIFg4BAQEKCRQUBCSCJAEBBAEjBBkBGxILAQMBCwYFBAcNDR0CAiEBAREBBQEKEgYTEodvAQMJBgyjO4tjT4J7hBoKGScDClmIfAEFDIxAgkUEB4ItgRMDiHOMC4FggR+KSYM4FimEOi8 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,863,1355094000"; d="scan'208";a="6875425" Received: from mail-bk0-f42.google.com ([209.85.214.42]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 18 Mar 2013 12:05:46 +0100 Received: by mail-bk0-f42.google.com with SMTP id jk7so2457423bkc.1 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 04:05:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=/rySz55Cd5FzBZTtbJV0huntr7szZdR0QVYxWuvbtCw=; b=vExa5ElM5+csk3wUnRNDDozlbVSKdra6Wqasy+UWTJgBI+22n4XX1dAVBg73CfEMX4 Pl42nhZjLD/5KhsQoVvCWj/Yf3Xfk27VEg6JrkJiwQfuGq3f40B23nf3/ObVOAEz669I 1VmPkg/nOtPUDysk4X7Yb1kyDhWc+fiRFciyY5UIhI1hOVfkQUBQbi2PSG29ixk8os18 K6ztL6ZLgqxe7dmBWq9BNsNy2swrqUB+v+geqvlob7BkqCSGr/RVMwUcV0IhdScu5irr L/FuSqcBVhhujqsAgGfRnqsRjoVpNj6+CbISCpSeyrcOqcFrpdKG3jRM1Rligqu39upU AA6g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.204.231.6 with SMTP id jo6mr6687932bkb.30.1363604745809; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 04:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.15.136 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 04:05:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <86572c5b-3307-4f6f-be0b-c710b6291780@googlegroups.com> <878v5lca2c.fsf@li195-236.members.linode.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 19:05:45 +0800 Message-ID: From: Adrian May To: Gabriel Scherer Cc: Malcolm Matalka , fa.caml@googlegroups.com, caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=485b396186767d23ca04d830f8bb X-Validation-by: adrian.alexander.may@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Haskell vs OCaml --485b396186767d23ca04d830f8bb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Actually I was making a serious point, namely, that Haskell forces you to learn the whole FP deal even to write Hello World, whereas Ocaml lets you chicken out into imperative programming at the first hurdle. Which is better? Well I'd say the former because the latter risks building up a code base that doesn't rhyme with itself and a population of programmers who react to one half or the other of the code with either derision or confusion. On 18 March 2013 17:59, Gabriel Scherer wrote: > I see no point in keeping this thread going on, given the mediocre way > it started. > > The original question was about feedback on OCaml being used to teach > programming, and I think it is good that is answered in detail if it > can help in making informed curriculum decisions. Don't hesitate to > keep providing data if you think it helps. > > On the other side, there is no "competition" going on here -- and it's > indeed an excellent thing that Haskell, being a beautiful language, is > also taught at university (same for SML)! If only there were less Java > courses... > > I'm sure there are interesting things to be said about "Haskell and > OCaml" (rather than "vs."), but this is not the way to start it. > > "Keep Caml and Curry On"! > > On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Malcolm Matalka > wrote: > > The biggest advantage for me is Ocaml is simpler than Haskell IMO. > > > > adrian.alexander.may@gmail.com writes: > > > >> On Wednesday, 13 August 2008 20:49:17 UTC+8, circ ular wrote: > >>> What are the advantages/disadvantages when comparing OCaml to Haskell? > >> > >> case you of > >> man -> haskell > >> mouse -> ocaml > > > > -- > > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: > > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list > > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs > --485b396186767d23ca04d830f8bb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually I was making a serious point, namely, that Haskell forces you to l= earn the whole FP deal even to write Hello World, whereas Ocaml lets you ch= icken out into imperative programming at the first hurdle. Which is better?= Well I'd say the former because the latter risks building up a code ba= se that doesn't rhyme with itself and a population of programmers who r= eact to one half or the other of the code with either derision or confusion= .



On 18 March 2013 17:59, Gabriel Sche= rer <gabriel.scherer@gmail.com> wrote:
I see no point in keeping this thread going on, given the mediocre way
it started.

The original question was about feedback on OCaml being used to teach
programming, and I think it is good that is answered in detail if it
can help in making informed curriculum decisions. Don't hesitate to
keep providing data if you think it helps.

On the other side, there is no "competition" going on here -- and= it's
indeed an excellent thing that Haskell, being a beautiful language, is
also taught at university (same for SML)! If only there were less Java
courses...

I'm sure there are interesting things to be said about "Haskell an= d
OCaml" (rather than "vs."), but this is not the way to start= it.

"Keep Caml and Curry On"!

On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Malcolm Matalka <mmatalka@gmail.com> wrote:
> The biggest advantage for me is Ocaml is simpler than Haskell IMO.
>
> adrian.alexander.may= @gmail.com writes:
>
>> On Wednesday, 13 August 2008 20:49:17 UTC+8, circ ular =C2=A0wrote= :
>>> What are the advantages/disadvantages when comparing OCaml to = Haskell?
>>
>> case you of
>> =C2=A0 man =C2=A0 -> haskell
>> =C2=A0 mouse -> ocaml
>
> --
> Caml-list mailing list. =C2=A0Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs

--485b396186767d23ca04d830f8bb--