From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE6FBBC4 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:49:45 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApACAG4N00nRVdulkWdsb2JhbACCJjCKRog4PwEBAQEJCQwHD7kKg3sG X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,431,1233529200"; d="scan'208";a="26803990" Received: from mail-ew0-f165.google.com ([209.85.219.165]) by mail1-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 01 Apr 2009 15:49:45 +0200 Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so42196ewy.27 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 06:49:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.35.5 with SMTP id i5mr4465523ebi.97.1238593784994; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 06:49:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <49D22C32.2050604@ens-lyon.org> References: <364f41440903241242v6dd2244fkbbd1ea8e3b20af60@mail.gmail.com> <3091E0E6-226B-4F4A-A78C-E523C250B8D5@osu.edu> <49D22C32.2050604@ens-lyon.org> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 14:49:44 +0100 Message-ID: <9722eaea0904010649x1bcb63b5wbcda3a737c6309f3@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Caml-list] questions From: Thomas Gazagnaire To: Martin Jambon Cc: Kuba Ober , caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c3770936d5804667e96e1 X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocaml:01 ocaml:01 ens-lyon:01 weis:01 beginner's:01 bug:01 ens-lyon:01 weis:01 beginner's:01 bug:01 rode:98 2009:98 rode:98 2009:98 beginners:01 --0015174c3770936d5804667e96e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have also learned ocaml with "Le Langage Caml" and I really enjoyed this book (it was one of the first book on language programming that I rode). It might a be a good idea to update the content of this book and to translate it into ocaml/english :-) Thomas 2009/3/31 Martin Jambon > Kuba Ober wrote: > > There must be some reason why the manual and other materials on the > > official site are of such poor quality. I've thought a bit about it, and > > the only reason I see is that the authors do not have a feel for what it > > takes to learn/understand/use that language. They obviously know it all > > through, but that's still far removed from being able to explain it to > > someone else. I don't know, of course, how it is that one understands > > something "well" yet is not able to explain it to somebody else. To me, > > that's very fragile knowledge. I always thought that deep understanding > > implies an ability to extract what's important, and to lead the other > > person from some "basics" (whatever they may be) to the conclusion. > > I can see one reason: like many other French OCaml programmers, I learned > OCaml at school (it was in 1998). French teachers don't rely heavily on a > book. There is however one book that covers the essentials, "Le Langage > Caml" > by Weis and Leroy, which despite using the Caml Light dialect is the most > enlightening programming book I've ever got to read. For the rest, there is > the reference manual of OCaml and plenty of source code all around the web. > > I think that's why there is not much more incentive to write a complete > "replace-the-teacher" text book on OCaml written by the core OCaml > developers, > who are mostly a French team. Besides, it's a lot of work and doesn't make > money. > > Of course there are now a few great books and tutorials on OCaml in > English, > none of them having an official status. > > > Martin > > -- > http://mjambon.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: > http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list > Archives: http://caml.inria.fr > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs > --0015174c3770936d5804667e96e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have also learned ocaml with "Le Langage Caml" and I really enj= oyed this book (it was one of the first book on language programming that I= rode).
It might a be a good idea to update the content of this book an= d to translate it into ocaml/english :-)

Thomas

2009/3/31 Martin Jambon <martin.jambon= @ens-lyon.org>
Kuba Ober wrote:
> There must be some reason why the manual and other materials on the > official site are of such poor quality. I've thought a bit about i= t, and
> the only reason I see is that the authors do not have a feel for what = it
> takes to learn/understand/use that language. They obviously know it al= l
> through, but that's still far removed from being able to explain i= t to
> someone else. I don't know, of course, how it is that one understa= nds
> something "well" yet is not able to explain it to somebody e= lse. To me,
> that's very fragile knowledge. I always thought that deep understa= nding
> implies an ability to extract what's important, and to lead the ot= her
> person from some "basics" (whatever they may be) to the conc= lusion.

I can see one reason: like many other French OCaml programmers, I lea= rned
OCaml at school (it was in 1998). French teachers don't rely heavily on= a
book. There is however one book that covers the essentials, "Le Langag= e Caml"
by Weis and Leroy, which despite using the Caml Light dialect is the most enlightening programming book I've ever got to read. For the rest, ther= e is
the reference manual of OCaml and plenty of source code all around the web.=

I think that's why there is not much more incentive to write a complete=
"replace-the-teacher" text book on OCaml written by the core OCam= l developers,
who are mostly a French team. Besides, it's a lot of work and doesn'= ;t make money.

Of course there are now a few great books and tutorials on OCaml in English= ,
none of them having an official status.


Martin

--
http://mjambon.com/

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