* Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book @ 2009-03-06 21:14 Jason Hickey 2009-03-06 23:18 ` [Caml-list] " Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Jason Hickey @ 2009-03-06 21:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: caml-list; +Cc: Heather Bergman, txr Dear friends, I have recently reviewed a book titled "The Objective Caml Programming Language," published under the name Tim Rentsch by Abscissa Press, ISBN 978-0-9815992-0-5. The majority of the text printed in this book was written by me, and it is published without my permission. To be specific, Mr. Rentsch wrote chapters 14, 15, 17, and the Appendix (totaling 1/3 of the text of this book); the rest is my writing. The copy is near verbatim. To validate, simply place the texts side-by-side. For clarity, one can compare against a very early draft of my book. I have placed a few examples online using the 2002 draft for illustration. http://www.cs.caltech.edu/~jyh/papers/side-by-side.pdf Even with editing and revisions since then, much of the 2002 text appears in the Abscissa book verbatim. This is not isolated; the copying is broad and sweeping. For the chapters where I made significant revisions after 2002, the logs are online and available for scrutiny. There is no copyright in ideas. Copyright infringement consists of the actual copying by one author of the words written by another. The infringement here is precise and simple. - The book contains substantial text that I wrote. - It is published under the sole authorship of Tim Rentsch. - It is published without my permission. - History I began this book in 2000 as a reference for a compiler class I was teaching at Caltech. Mr. Rentsch worked with me as a reviewer and editor from 2004-2006. In addition, he wrote two chapters and an appendix during this time, and I offered him co-authorship on this basis. We had a dispute in Jan 2007 where I felt Mr. Rentsch's claims on the entire work were excessive. After several months discussion, I terminated the arrangement, rolled back the text to 2003, and started over. Since then, I have revised and rewritten the text, including several new chapters, and I submitted a new manuscript for publication to Cambridge University Press in Jan 2008. This is still pending a formal review by Mr. Rentsch to determine "the extent to which any such manuscript might constitute a derivative work of our previous collaboration" (his words, his request). [Yes, despite repeated querying, we realize that this review might not come to pass.] To my knowledge there are no lawsuits pending at this time. I was not aware until recently of the Abscissa publication -- and in fact I hadn't even heard of Abscissa Press. The home page is blank, but a quick investigation shows that the domain name is served by shamko.com, for which the contact is listed as Tim Rentsch. - What do we do as a community? It is my very strong wish that this event not have any lasting effect on the community. I wish my role in the community to be as an advocate and a teacher, I have no wish to be involved in a public controversy. I believe the best course of action would simply be to be productive, move on, and continue with our lives. Leave the decision of what to do with the Mr. Rentsch to me and my publisher. If you are a reviewer, consider carefully whether/how you want to be associated with Rentsch's publication. If you bought a copy of the book, consider filing it in the section that covers "academic integrity." Finally, if you are willing and have time, consider writing a letter to my editor Heather Bergman (hbergman at cambridge.org) encouraging CUP to publish my work. You may view it online at the usual sites. Jason Hickey http://www.cs.caltech.edu/~jyh ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book 2009-03-06 21:14 Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book Jason Hickey @ 2009-03-06 23:18 ` Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen 2009-03-07 1:52 ` Yoann Padioleau 2009-03-07 1:01 ` Jon Harrop 2009-03-08 8:15 ` Tim Rentsch 2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen @ 2009-03-06 23:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jason Hickey; +Cc: caml-list, Heather Bergman 2009/3/6 Jason Hickey <jyh@cs.caltech.edu>: > Dear friends, > > I have recently reviewed a book titled "The Objective Caml Programming > Language," published under the name Tim Rentsch by Abscissa Press, > ISBN 978-0-9815992-0-5. The majority of the text printed in this book > was written by me, and it is published without my permission. To be > specific, Mr. Rentsch wrote chapters 14, 15, 17, and the Appendix > (totaling 1/3 of the text of this book); the rest is my writing. > I don't have anything polite to say other than to give Jason my full support and recommend anyone to not buy that book. No matter how much editing takes place, this cannot count as original work. Most people in software know this. Regards, Mikkel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book 2009-03-06 23:18 ` [Caml-list] " Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen @ 2009-03-07 1:52 ` Yoann Padioleau 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Yoann Padioleau @ 2009-03-07 1:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen Cc: Jason Hickey, caml-list, Heather Bergman Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkel@dvide.com> writes: > 2009/3/6 Jason Hickey <jyh@cs.caltech.edu>: >> Dear friends, >> >> I have recently reviewed a book titled "The Objective Caml Programming >> Language," published under the name Tim Rentsch by Abscissa Press, >> ISBN 978-0-9815992-0-5. The majority of the text printed in this book >> was written by me, and it is published without my permission. To be >> specific, Mr. Rentsch wrote chapters 14, 15, 17, and the Appendix >> (totaling 1/3 of the text of this book); the rest is my writing. >> > > I don't have anything polite to say other than to give Jason my full > support and recommend anyone to not buy that book. > > No matter how much editing takes place, this cannot count as original > work. Most people in software know this. The question is why fighting over a book that looks dull and boring, than 10 people will maybe buy, and that can be downloaded anyway as a pdf on the web ? Ok, I am (half) joking, just to relax, there are too much tension on this mailing list :) I propose a fight between the two gentlemen: the one who win the next ICFP contest can publish the book. > > Regards, > Mikkel > > _______________________________________________ > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: > http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list > Archives: http://caml.inria.fr > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book 2009-03-06 21:14 Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book Jason Hickey 2009-03-06 23:18 ` [Caml-list] " Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen @ 2009-03-07 1:01 ` Jon Harrop 2009-03-08 8:15 ` Tim Rentsch 2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Jon Harrop @ 2009-03-07 1:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: caml-list On Friday 06 March 2009 21:14:27 Jason Hickey wrote: > ... > I have placed a few examples online using the 2002 draft for illustration. > > http://www.cs.caltech.edu/~jyh/papers/side-by-side.pdf > ... Where can I find your third example in your 2002 draft? -- Dr Jon Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd. http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?e ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book 2009-03-06 21:14 Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book Jason Hickey 2009-03-06 23:18 ` [Caml-list] " Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen 2009-03-07 1:01 ` Jon Harrop @ 2009-03-08 8:15 ` Tim Rentsch 2009-03-08 13:52 ` [Caml-list] " Yitzhak Mandelbaum ` (2 more replies) 2 siblings, 3 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Tim Rentsch @ 2009-03-08 8:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: caml-list Dear Caml-list readers: I have just read Jason Hickey's post of 3/6/2009 at the beginning of this thread. Now that Jason has made this a public issue by trying it in the court of public opinion I am forced to give a public response. Jason's letter is false or misleading in important respects, as demonstrated by a letter he himself wrote to my lawyer dated May 19, 2008 [http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~txr/tocpl/misc/jyh-2008_05_19.pdf]. In a prior post, Jason claimed not to have been aware of my book. The truth is he and his publisher have exchanged multiple letters with me and my lawyer for some time, and they have been well aware of my book for roughly the last year, well before it was published. The clearest example is in his own hand. Prof. Hickey's letter of May 19, 2008, is two full pages devoted solely to the subject of my book. Among other things, he stated: "I am pleased that Mr. Rentsch intends to publish a book on Objective Caml based on joint work he did with me." He also stated that his publisher's counsel, Kevin Taylor, had "proposed that both authors simply publish their own books . . ." Jason claims of my book The Objective Caml Programming Language that I wrote only chapters 14, 15, 17, and the Appendix, and that he wrote everything else. That claim is false and Jason knows it. I have said all along that my book is based on the joint work that Jason and I prepared between 2004 and 2007. Jason tries to downplay my role in the joint work, for example his comment about offering co-authorship "on this basis" [for two chapters and an appendix]. In fact what he said was "We have to make you a co-author!", or something very close to that, and sounded more like it was made out of recognition of the amount of work I'd put in, not just specific writings. Furthermore most of the work I did in other parts of the book was done after that point, after being made a co-author. It appears that Jason is guilty of doing himself what he's accusing me of doing, making use of material developed for our joint work without my permission. I've just conducted a very cursory examination of Jason's online manuscript. For example, the earlier course notes had no exercises. A comparison of exercises in his manuscript and my book will show similarities in many cases, too many to be just coincidental. I have not received any communication either asking me for permission or attempting to make arrangements so I could be paid royalties that I'm entitled to for use of material developed for the joint work. Jason intimates in one posting that my manuscript was deliberately withheld from him. The truth is an offer was made in a letter sent in May of 2008 to Kevin Taylor, with a cc to Jason, to provide a copy of that manuscript. No request for any such copy has been received. Jason implies in one posting that I asked CUP to delay publication of his manuscript until after I reviewed it. I never made any such request, nor did I expect that there would be any delay of this kind. I did ask for an advance copy of the manuscript, but on later advice decided not to look at it at all, and this decision was communicated to CUP by letter in May of 2008 (the same letter mentioned above, cc'ed to Jason). Since that time I'm not aware of any attempt, either by Jason or by CUP, to try to get any kind of resolution on the matter or to ask about any possibly missing communication. There are indications on reddit.com that Jason may be trying to add to a set of comments accusing me of plagiarism; the charges of plagiarism are absolutely false, and Jason knows it. The comments above reflect just some of the ways that Jason's remarks are false or misleading; I haven't tried to tabulate them all. I have, to the best of my understanding, a legal right to use material from the joint work in the way that I'm using it. Furthermore I invite everyone to compare my book against the earlier 2002 course notes, not just at the level of words or phrases, but entire sections and chapters, and see for themselves the extent to which I contributed not just changes but value to all parts of any earlier material. At the end of his posting Jason makes some self-serving statements related to further public discussion, moving on, etc. If he'd really felt that way he could have written a short notice saying that he would be taking the matter up with his publisher and would let people know how things turned out. Of course, what he really wants is to have it both ways -- make public accusations and then stop any further public discussion. I encourage _all_ readers to gather facts on this issue on _both_ sides, and convey any opinions to Jason's editor, and also to appropriate public forums -- I don't know where else Jason might have posted. I encourage reviewers of _both_ books to report all the facts available to them, and for anyone who would recommend Jason's book to consider whether they want to be associated with the kind of intellectual dishonesty he has displayed in his postings here. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book 2009-03-08 8:15 ` Tim Rentsch @ 2009-03-08 13:52 ` Yitzhak Mandelbaum 2009-03-08 14:46 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2009-03-09 13:57 ` Mike Lin 2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Yitzhak Mandelbaum @ 2009-03-08 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: List caml Dear list, I strongly advise people to read the letter to which Mr. Rentsch links before coming to any conclusions from Mr. Rentsch's quotes. Cheers, Yitzhak On Mar 8, 2009, at 4:15 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote: > Dear Caml-list readers: > > I have just read Jason Hickey's post of 3/6/2009 at the beginning of > this thread. Now that Jason has made this a public issue by trying it > in the court of public opinion I am forced to give a public response. > Jason's letter is false or misleading in important respects, as > demonstrated by a letter he himself wrote to my lawyer dated May 19, > 2008 [http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~txr/tocpl/misc/ > jyh-2008_05_19.pdf]. > > In a prior post, Jason claimed not to have been aware of my book. The > truth is he and his publisher have exchanged multiple letters with me > and my lawyer for some time, and they have been well aware of my book > for roughly the last year, well before it was published. The clearest > example is in his own hand. Prof. Hickey's letter of May 19, 2008, is > two full pages devoted solely to the subject of my book. Among other > things, he stated: "I am pleased that Mr. Rentsch intends to publish a > book on Objective Caml based on joint work he did with me." He also > stated that his publisher's counsel, Kevin Taylor, had "proposed that > both authors simply publish their own books . . ." > > Jason claims of my book The Objective Caml Programming Language that I > wrote only chapters 14, 15, 17, and the Appendix, and that he wrote > everything else. That claim is false and Jason knows it. I have said > all along that my book is based on the joint work that Jason and I > prepared between 2004 and 2007. Jason tries to downplay my role in > the joint work, for example his comment about offering co-authorship > "on this basis" [for two chapters and an appendix]. In fact what he > said was "We have to make you a co-author!", or something very close > to that, and sounded more like it was made out of recognition of the > amount of work I'd put in, not just specific writings. Furthermore > most of the work I did in other parts of the book was done after that > point, after being made a co-author. > > It appears that Jason is guilty of doing himself what he's accusing > me of doing, making use of material developed for our joint work > without my permission. I've just conducted a very cursory > examination of Jason's online manuscript. For example, the earlier > course notes had no exercises. A comparison of exercises in his > manuscript and my book will show similarities in many cases, too many > to be just coincidental. I have not received any communication > either asking me for permission or attempting to make arrangements > so I could be paid royalties that I'm entitled to for use of > material developed for the joint work. > > Jason intimates in one posting that my manuscript was deliberately > withheld from him. The truth is an offer was made in a letter sent in > May of 2008 to Kevin Taylor, with a cc to Jason, to provide a copy of > that manuscript. No request for any such copy has been received. > > Jason implies in one posting that I asked CUP to delay publication of > his manuscript until after I reviewed it. I never made any such > request, nor did I expect that there would be any delay of this kind. > I did ask for an advance copy of the manuscript, but on later advice > decided not to look at it at all, and this decision was communicated > to CUP by letter in May of 2008 (the same letter mentioned above, > cc'ed to Jason). Since that time I'm not aware of any attempt, either > by Jason or by CUP, to try to get any kind of resolution on the matter > or to ask about any possibly missing communication. > > There are indications on reddit.com that Jason may be trying to add to > a set of comments accusing me of plagiarism; the charges of > plagiarism are absolutely false, and Jason knows it. > > The comments above reflect just some of the ways that Jason's remarks > are false or misleading; I haven't tried to tabulate them all. I > have, to the best of my understanding, a legal right to use material > from the joint work in the way that I'm using it. Furthermore I > invite everyone to compare my book against the earlier 2002 course > notes, not just at the level of words or phrases, but entire sections > and chapters, and see for themselves the extent to which I contributed > not just changes but value to all parts of any earlier material. > > At the end of his posting Jason makes some self-serving statements > related to further public discussion, moving on, etc. If he'd really > felt that way he could have written a short notice saying that he > would be taking the matter up with his publisher and would let people > know how things turned out. Of course, what he really wants is to > have it both ways -- make public accusations and then stop any further > public discussion. I encourage _all_ readers to gather facts on this > issue on _both_ sides, and convey any opinions to Jason's editor, and > also to appropriate public forums -- I don't know where else Jason > might have posted. I encourage reviewers of _both_ books to report > all the facts available to them, and for anyone who would recommend > Jason's book to consider whether they want to be associated with the > kind of intellectual dishonesty he has displayed in his postings here. > > _______________________________________________ > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: > http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list > Archives: http://caml.inria.fr > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs ----------------------------- Yitzhak Mandelbaum ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book 2009-03-08 8:15 ` Tim Rentsch 2009-03-08 13:52 ` [Caml-list] " Yitzhak Mandelbaum @ 2009-03-08 14:46 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2009-03-09 13:57 ` Mike Lin 2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Joshua D. Guttman @ 2009-03-08 14:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: caml-list; +Cc: Joshua D. Guttman Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> writes: > Among other things, he stated: "I am pleased that > Mr. Rentsch intends to publish a book on Objective Caml > based on joint work he did with me." Among other things. Among those other things is: "I do not grant permission to use my written word in his manuscript." This sentence comes early in the letter, and would seem to make his position rather clear. Joshua -- Joshua D. Guttman The MITRE Corporation ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book 2009-03-08 8:15 ` Tim Rentsch 2009-03-08 13:52 ` [Caml-list] " Yitzhak Mandelbaum 2009-03-08 14:46 ` Joshua D. Guttman @ 2009-03-09 13:57 ` Mike Lin 2009-03-09 14:23 ` Yaron Minsky 2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Mike Lin @ 2009-03-09 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: caml-list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1178 bytes --] On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote: > > I > have, to the best of my understanding, a legal right to use material > from the joint work in the way that I'm using it. While I am fully aware that a public argument over this among poorly-informed non-lawyers is possibly counterproductive and certainly unhelpful, now I'm curious :) Many people involved with OSS are familiar with the rough contours of copyright law as it applies to "derivative works", but perhaps less familiar with how it applies in cases of disputes between co-authors (if that is how you are framing the situation). So to make your case "in the court of public opinion", I think the above statement is what really needs a detailed justification. All the other issues raised in the recent lengthy missives from both parties are chaff by comparison. On a superficial scan of its contents, one might conclude that Tim's letter to your lawyer may have been written in implied confidence, and if that was the case then an outside observer might find it somewhat distasteful to post it like this. Could your perhaps clarify the circumstances of that, as well? Mike Lin [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1657 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book 2009-03-09 13:57 ` Mike Lin @ 2009-03-09 14:23 ` Yaron Minsky 2009-03-09 14:36 ` Mike Lin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Yaron Minsky @ 2009-03-09 14:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mike Lin; +Cc: caml-list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 241 bytes --] 2009/3/9 Mike Lin <nilekim@gmail.com> > On a superficial scan of its contents, one might conclude that Tim's letter > to your lawyer may have been written in implied confidence, > I believe you meant "_Jason's_ letter to your lawyer". y [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 570 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [Caml-list] Re: Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book 2009-03-09 14:23 ` Yaron Minsky @ 2009-03-09 14:36 ` Mike Lin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Mike Lin @ 2009-03-09 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: yminsky; +Cc: caml-list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 342 bytes --] Good catch On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Yaron Minsky <yminsky@gmail.com> wrote: > 2009/3/9 Mike Lin <nilekim@gmail.com> > >> On a superficial scan of its contents, one might conclude that Tim's >> letter to your lawyer may have been written in implied confidence, >> > > I believe you meant "_Jason's_ letter to your lawyer". > > y > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 922 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-03-09 14:36 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2009-03-06 21:14 Tim Rentsch & The Abscissa Book Jason Hickey 2009-03-06 23:18 ` [Caml-list] " Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen 2009-03-07 1:52 ` Yoann Padioleau 2009-03-07 1:01 ` Jon Harrop 2009-03-08 8:15 ` Tim Rentsch 2009-03-08 13:52 ` [Caml-list] " Yitzhak Mandelbaum 2009-03-08 14:46 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2009-03-09 13:57 ` Mike Lin 2009-03-09 14:23 ` Yaron Minsky 2009-03-09 14:36 ` Mike Lin
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