From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DE6BBAF for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:07:25 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AscDAKsa9EjAXQImiGdsb2JhbACTIj4BAQEVIqE2bSeHMgECAQOBaQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,409,1220220000"; d="scan'208";a="18082974" Received: from discorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.38]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 14 Oct 2008 13:07:25 +0200 Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by discorde.inria.fr (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m9EB7Ga4028027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:07:25 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsQBAIoa9EjRVcbimmdsb2JhbACTIj4BAQEBAQgLCgcRA6E2bSeHMgECAQOBaQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.33,409,1220220000"; d="scan'208";a="16064473" Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com ([209.85.198.226]) by mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 14 Oct 2008 13:07:24 +0200 Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id k40so3921870rvb.57 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:07:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=7MZTMfK/jsJ2GR73Qv2V6gEq89pXbA0z0hFLzjXYpyw=; b=SA5uwYDBywiOz8RVFshc8vVorspwAxxCrwMSh6TljkoC63e8RFpqEqYJHmhgEaUHUo NNL/rHmd1uyoiEfWSsYuOMEY922KkwJlv4hO5iN2OQl5Czz1J1QfEj2eMe7LWQFLRbav gN/ti0q8f8cC8M+ESwQPg39z5LlCw1S21SWMc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=UefgPZohVFg+Mi4r1NvjepOB1q4cMjn4ZTnTefUVBij02JK5WlwzEBxmw25h7AsdDT JUnVojZ+bMHNI/NCcwykB0PKDA0MSZ11ZQENw+/T2xjT3a5W22W87Jt1iC5jdQqWEEww KLfTyXsxfcUr27di8CFwV7SK6IeTNRGkHUGCY= Received: by 10.140.128.3 with SMTP id a3mr4700711rvd.195.1223982443461; Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.82.18 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <666572260810140407w121d5bafm43993737df5e2c0c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:07:23 +0200 From: Adrien To: "Sylvain Le Gall" Subject: Re : [Caml-list] Re: Re : Road to native windows OCaml... Cc: caml-list@inria.fr In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <200810131935.53365.kuba@mareimbrium.org> <548B4D09-6EFF-4805-83E2-D1F413706EE5@erratique.ch> <666572260810140241p5d7b8ee2ofafebec229e9bce2@mail.gmail.com> X-Miltered: at discorde with ID 48F47D64.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail . ensmp . fr)! X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocaml:01 le-gall:01 bunzli:01 buenzli:01 cygwin:01 ocaml-:01 cygwin:01 mldonkey:01 runtime:01 mingw:01 compiler:01 ocaml:01 mingw:01 runtime:01 recompiled:01 2008/10/14, Sylvain Le Gall : > On 14-10-2008, Adrien wrote: >> 2008/10/14, Daniel B=FCnzli : >>> >>> Le 14 oct. 08 =E0 09:59, David Allsopp a =E9crit : >>> >>>> Can I ask what the motivation is for this (out of interest, not >>>> criticism)? >>> >>> Maybe because if you want to distribute executables using cygwin you >>> have to release your code under a GPL compatible license [1]. >>> >>> Daniel >>> >>> [1] http://caml.inria.fr/pub/distrib/ocaml-3.10/notes/README.win32 >> >> I would give another explanation : cygwin is big and slow. >> A base cygwin install is at least 1GB (when fully configured, after >> carefully reviewing *each* package), a regular one is 2GB. XP itself >> is not that big, I've not seen many applications that big, only CAD >> ones. >> Cygwin is also slow, though it will probably not impact a student use >> (networking is slower due to the translation, I have mldonkey in >> mind). ./configure are also painfully slow, the need to run several >> small commands where startup time is more important than runtime gives >> cygwin no chance [1]. >> >> On the other hand, mingw on its own is about 80MB. If you add a few >> things, it will weight at most 200MB which is 10 times smaller than >> the cygwin solution. >> > > Welcome in the windows world. For your information, there is a lot of > thing in windows that is bigger than cygwin. > > Just taking a fresh example (install it last sunday): PSDK for AMD64 > (platform SDK). This is the recommanded C compiler to compile OCaml for > Win64. It takes 935MB (ok this is not 1GB). It is just what is replacing > mingw !!!! > > Other examples: > - games > - Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 Team, takes ~6GB (official number from > microsoft website) > > If hard disk space were a problem, nobody would install Microsoft > products... Unreal Tournament 2004 takes 5.3GB, I have it installed on an XFS partition though. ;) It's just games, not games on a microsoft platform (PS3 and Blu-Ray anyone = ?). But I dont think you will get many students install a 2GB environment. If they have too, they will of course but they are likely to prefer the 200MB one. And the point is not students, cross-compilation will simply give better results with less troubles. > Another information, I have various benchmark on cygwin. My conclusion > was not what i have expected. Most of the time cygwin runtime has a good > speed. This is not so slow in fact. I think most of the slowness you can > see is because you are working in a MSDOS/emulated X terminal which > seems slow (but is not, this is just a question of refresh rate). > Seriously, cygwin is not that bad. I would still not recommend using it > for various other reasons. Indeed, runtime has no reason to be affected as long as it's not using external libraries, typically -lws2_32, winsock2). The point is really startup. As for terminal slowness, my computer boots in 16 seconds under linux. I recompiled my kernel yesterday and activated PRINTK_TIME/Show timing information on printks, it gives you the time a kernel message was emitted, related to startup. At the end of the boot, the kernel was giving times 3 seconds better than an independent chronometer. There had been enough things to write on the console for message to take 3 seconds to be displayed. Displaying on a terminal is slooow everywhere, not just windows. Also, I don't think cygwin is bad. I just think it is not the appropriate answer for most of us. IMHO msys/mingw is a better *approach*, however their shell implementation is bastard. They decided to support both forward and backward slashes for instance, this has the awful consequence of giving you "not found" errors when using /c/gnu/msys/home/Adrien/icu\\source (personal experience). That is however something at the msys level, not the mingw one. --- Adrien Nader > > Regards > Sylvain Le Gall > > _______________________________________________ > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: > http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list > Archives: http://caml.inria.fr > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs >