From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,SPF_SOFTFAIL autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 Received: from mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail4-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.105]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB72BBAF for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 13:38:10 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ak8CAH8HBUqEqOABmWdsb2JhbACXDgEBAQEBCAsKBxG3QYN+BQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.40,320,1238968800"; d="scan'208";a="39678342" Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr ([132.168.224.1]) by mail4-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 09 May 2009 13:38:10 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.0) with ESMTP id n49Ba0jt018885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 13:36:00 +0200 Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n49Bc8b8017246 for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 13:38:09 +0200 (envelope-from Pascal.CUOQ@cea.fr) Received: from levau.intra.cea.fr (levau.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.52]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.1) with ESMTP id n49Bc8f5021275 for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 13:38:08 +0200 Received: from LAXA.intra.cea.fr ([132.166.64.47]) by levau.intra.cea.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 9 May 2009 13:38:08 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Ocamlopt x86-32 and SSE2 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 13:38:08 +0200 Message-ID: <5EFD4D7AC6265F4D9D3A849CEA9219191AB1A4@LAXA.intra.cea.fr> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Ocamlopt x86-32 and SSE2 Thread-Index: AcnQjPF0sYRpvweeRZaSJsmMvAddPgABncIf References: <20090509100004.353ADBC5C@yquem.inria.fr> From: "CUOQ Pascal" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2009 11:38:08.0754 (UTC) FILETIME=[A02BDD20:01C9D09A] X-Spam: no; 0.00; ocamlopt:01 cuoq:01 cuoq:01 command-line:01 gcc:01 ocaml:01 camlp:01 compilation:01 camlp:01 ocaml:01 packagers:01 macos:01 illness:98 delusion:98 wrote:01 Xavier Leroy wrote: >2- Declare pre-SSE2 processors obsolete and convert the current > "i386" port to always use SSE2 float arithmetic. > >3- Support both x87 and SSE2 float arithmetic within the same i386 > port, with a command-line option to activate SSE2, like gcc does. As someone with somewhat of an obsession for keeping obsolete computers in function as long as they are not broken, I have to interject something. I still have a functional Pentium 90 (granted, that's not the newest computer that does not support SSE2, but please hear me). I gave up the idea of bootstrapping OCaml on it years ago because it has 16Mb of memory, and that became insufficient around the time Camlp4 became part of the distribution. I would have had either to modify the compilation flow or cross-compile, both of which were too much work for the meagre resulting cool factor. Now, both the old and the new Camlp4 are fine pieces of software that make use of resources available nowadays to make things possible that weren't before. I am not complaining. I am saying that you have to be consistent in your requirements. My father was using Debian on a 500MHz K6-3D that I had somehow been able to upgrade with enough memory to run one of the two popular desktops. He finally upgraded to a new computer because he could see the characters being displayed one by one in the e-mail client. That, or the motherboard died. I can't remember. It was serendipitous, anyway. There are plenty of embedded processors with an x86 instruction set and no SSE2 around, but these are not in the cool toys that we want to run OCaml on. The cool toys have ARM processors. My message is: I am one of the people who have the peculiar mental illness that leads one to suggest a compatible option. Well, I am not. Take option 2 and run with it! >However, packagers are >going to be very unhappy: Debian still lists i486 as its bottom line; >for Fedora, it's Pentium or Pentium II; for Windows, it's "a 1GHz >processor", meaning Pentium III. All these processors lack SSE2 >support. Only MacOS X is SSE2-compatible from scratch. Only Linux distributions are a problem, if OCaml packages are at risk of being rejected. Just because Windows still works on old computers doesn't force every program to do the same (flame bait: and I would add that Windows' support for old computers is mostly unintentional). In Linux distributions, is it completely forbidden to have packages that will not work on the bottom line? This is (I assume) Ocaml 3.12 that we are talking about, which would land sometime in 2010 and arrive in binary distributions that are scheduled to be released in 2011. Will Debian maintain its delusion of supporting the i486 by that time? Pascal