From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 345897EE4C for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:08:39 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of alphablock@orange.fr) identity=pra; client-ip=80.12.242.129; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="alphablock@orange.fr"; x-sender="alphablock@orange.fr"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of alphablock@orange.fr) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=80.12.242.129; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="alphablock@orange.fr"; x-sender="alphablock@orange.fr"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: None (mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@smtp.smtpout.orange.fr) identity=helo; client-ip=80.12.242.129; receiver=mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="alphablock@orange.fr"; x-sender="postmaster@smtp.smtpout.orange.fr"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuMBAEy7RVJQDPKBm2dsb2JhbABbgz+De6pPklSBMw4BAQEBAQYLCwkUKIJPJgwXAQEFAwMbGgIJHQJHGBMSAodfAQMTCKcuh2cBSgOJdIEpjFkWgTmCcYE2A48ThQ+DXYEvcoQRjmyBbw X-IPAS-Result: AuMBAEy7RVJQDPKBm2dsb2JhbABbgz+De6pPklSBMw4BAQEBAQYLCwkUKIJPJgwXAQEFAwMbGgIJHQJHGBMSAodfAQMTCKcuh2cBSgOJdIEpjFkWgTmCcYE2A48ThQ+DXYEvcoQRjmyBbw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.90,994,1371074400"; d="scan'208";a="28350115" Received: from smtp07.smtpout.orange.fr (HELO smtp.smtpout.orange.fr) ([80.12.242.129]) by mail3-smtp-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP; 27 Sep 2013 19:08:30 +0200 Received: from [192.168.1.10] ([90.29.42.233]) by mwinf5d65 with ME id WH8V1m00C51qRNa03H8VMv; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:08:30 +0200 From: "Damien Guichard" To: "Gour" Cc: caml-list@inria.fr Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:08:28 +0200 Message-ID: <567994902695064341@orange.fr> X-Mailer: EssentialPIM Portable v. 4.54 X-Validation-by: alphablock@orange.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] UFO (United Forces of OCaml) Hello Gour, OCaml is multi-paradigm in nature. There are multiple ways (multiple trade-offs) a thing can be done. Let's adopt the Open Source way: - At first there is nothing (i remember the days when OCaml had zero MySQL bindings) - Then they are multiple things (the number of MySQL bindings is 3 or 4) - Then some become unmaintained, some others gain attraction - Then (in a few years) you end with 2 or 3 good / excellent ways to do it Same about books, documentation, tutorials, IDEs ... In contrast with Caml-Light, OCaml has no 'official' book, tutorial or IDE. However i expect many to come, some to become almost forgotten, some to be cited as a reference point (Ocaml evolves continually). Actually there is an 'official' OCaml 2.2 book, but somewhat obsolete now. Just my humble opinion of course. I understand that, as a beginner, you may consider diversity as a danger. It seems your software is more fragile because some basic block could be discontinued. I would answer : the software fragility lies in the programmer, not in the language ecosystem being too weak. Actually GTK 2.24 looks very great when a good theme is applied. You can have this metal brush look. Or this white water-button look. Or whatever look you can imagine (or design). Plus LablGtk is an excellent binding that makes GTK programming far much easier. Otherwise i would warmly welcome a Qt binding. However, i dont wait for it, i go ahead. Even if i switch to Qt some day i don't loose my time, because knowing GTK, whatever language, is an asset anyway. I hope i am not too much rude with you, I apologize if i am, - Damien -- Mail created using EssentialPIM Free - www.essentialpim.com Le 27/09/2013 à 09:11, Gour à écrit : >Hello, > >I'm at the beginning of learning and using OCaml which is very fine >language and I've decided to use it over Ada. > >Many new things are happening like development of OPAM (very nice >project), then moving some projects to ocaml.org subdomains, new design >of the site as well... > >However, there are certain things which seems like wasting of resources, >so my humble proposal is whether it is possible to make UFO - United >Forces of OCaml in order not to have too many (similar) projects >tackling the same problems. > >One area which quickly comes to my mind is standard library. Although >I'm not (yet) able to conclude how much is standard library incomplete, >I see there are two larger projects trying to fill the gap. > >Jane Street is calling it "'Jane Street's alternative to the standard >library", while 'batteries' are labelled as: "community-driven effort to >standardize on an consistent, documented, and comprehensive development >platform for the OCaml programming language." > >For the uninitiated it's seems as attempts to solve the same problem, >but, unfortunately, it looks they're tackling it in a non-compatible >way. > >It's especially sensitive considering that the RWO book - which might >be used for many noobs to learn the language - is promoting Core, while >'community-driven' project is working on something else. > >Another thing which I can think of are build systems and although I'm >aware there is certain overlap in functionality and/or interdependances, >to me it seems that there are too many of them: > >a) OASIS > >b) ocamlbuild > >c) omake > >d) ocp-build > >e) yenga > >f) ... > >The list can be, of course, annotated by the need to have actively >developed/maintained bindings for truly multio-platform GUI bindings >(e.g. wx/Qt). > >So, my naive proposal is to try to combine forces together and produce >small(er) set of tools libraries and make it somewhat 'standard' within >community. It will attract new people to the language itself by making >it (more) clear what are the standard tools to be used. > >The OCaml community is, imho, not big-enough to allow such luxury of >re-inventing the wheels... > >Moreover, OCaml is advertised as "general purpose industrial-strength >programming language" and it behooves to have mature fully baked >ecosystem. > > >Sincerely, >Gour > >-- >The work of a man who is unattached to the modes of material >nature and who is fully situated in transcendental knowledge >merges entirely into transcendence. > >http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810 > > > >-- >Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management and archives: >https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list >Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners >Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs