[Caml-list] Warning: Ubuntu 11.04 Vs OCaml 3.12.0

[Caml-list] Warning: Ubuntu 11.04 Vs OCaml 3.12.0

[Sebastien Mondet]

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Hi

Just a warning for those who use Ubuntu and ocaml from sources (or GODI):

Ubuntu 11.04 (just released) contains the GNU assembler version
2.21.0.20110327
which affects this bug in the current version of the compiler:
http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/view.php?id=5237
(it will be fixed in 3.12.1)

Hope I saved some of you from a painful upgrade :)


Sebastien

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Re: [Caml-list] Warning: Ubuntu 11.04 Vs OCaml 3.12.0

[Gabriel Scherer]

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Would it be possible for Ubuntu users to use the Debian packages, which
already have the bugfix patch included?


On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Sebastien Mondet <sebastien.mondet@gmail.com
> wrote:

>
> Hi
>
> Just a warning for those who use Ubuntu and ocaml from sources (or GODI):
>
> Ubuntu 11.04 (just released) contains the GNU assembler version
> 2.21.0.20110327
> which affects this bug in the current version of the compiler:
> http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/view.php?id=5237
> (it will be fixed in 3.12.1)
>
> Hope I saved some of you from a painful upgrade :)
>
>
> Sebastien
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Caml-list] Warning: Ubuntu 11.04 Vs OCaml 3.12.0

[Gerd Stolpmann]

Am Dienstag, den 03.05.2011, 18:47 +0200 schrieb Gabriel Scherer:
> Would it be possible for Ubuntu users to use the Debian packages,
> which already have the bugfix patch included?

Tsts.

Thanks to Virgile Prevosto the patch is already in GODI, though not yet
released. I'll take care of this later today.

A source-based distribution can react quite fast on this type of
problem.

Gerd

> 
> 
> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Sebastien Mondet
> <sebastien.mondet@gmail.com> wrote:
>         
>         Hi
>         
>         
>         Just a warning for those who use Ubuntu and ocaml from sources
>         (or GODI):
>         
>         
>         Ubuntu 11.04 (just released) contains the GNU assembler
>         version 2.21.0.20110327
>         which affects this bug in the current version of the compiler:
>         http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/view.php?id=5237
>         (it will be fixed in 3.12.1)
>         
>         
>         Hope I saved some of you from a painful upgrade :)
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         Sebastien
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         
> 


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gerd Stolpmann, Bad Nauheimer Str.3, 64289 Darmstadt,Germany 
gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de          http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
Phone: +49-6151-153855                  Fax: +49-6151-997714
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Caml-list] Warning: Ubuntu 11.04 Vs OCaml 3.12.0

[Mehdi Dogguy]

On 05/03/2011 07:49 PM, Gerd Stolpmann wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 03.05.2011, 18:47 +0200 schrieb Gabriel Scherer:
>> Would it be possible for Ubuntu users to use the Debian packages,
>> which already have the bugfix patch included?
>
> Tsts.
>
> Thanks to Virgile Prevosto the patch is already in GODI, though not
> yet released. I'll take care of this later today.
>
> A source-based distribution can react quite fast on this type of
> problem.
>

That's hilarious (as a statement). This patch has been applied and
released (since last March 9th) in a binary distribution (namely
Debian). So, I quite don't understand your statement. IMO, It depends
on the manpower behind (and maybe dev tools and release process).
But I don't see where you gain to have a source-based distribution
to address this kind of issues (except for the build time… but that's
ridiculous).

The real problem of Ubuntu (wrt. OCaml) is that OCaml has no maintainer.
And, we also see that with GODI. manpower is lacking and you weren't able
to release a fix until today, although the patch was there since quite
some time now. (Not blaming anyone here, just stating a fact).

But oh well, maybe all this is off-topic.

Regards,

-- 
Mehdi Dogguy مهدي الدڤي
http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~dogguy
Tel.: (+33).1.44.27.28.38

Re: [Caml-list] Warning: Ubuntu 11.04 Vs OCaml 3.12.0

[Gerd Stolpmann]

Am Dienstag, den 03.05.2011, 22:51 +0200 schrieb Mehdi Dogguy:
> On 05/03/2011 07:49 PM, Gerd Stolpmann wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, den 03.05.2011, 18:47 +0200 schrieb Gabriel Scherer:
> >> Would it be possible for Ubuntu users to use the Debian packages,
> >> which already have the bugfix patch included?
> >
> > Tsts.
> >
> > Thanks to Virgile Prevosto the patch is already in GODI, though not
> > yet released. I'll take care of this later today.
> >
> > A source-based distribution can react quite fast on this type of
> > problem.
> >
> 
> That's hilarious (as a statement). This patch has been applied and
> released (since last March 9th) in a binary distribution (namely
> Debian). So, I quite don't understand your statement.

The statement is that a source-based distribution can adapt quickly to a
changing environment. What's the problem with this? We are aware of this
problem since yesterday, and we do something the day later.

I do not make any statement (if you read carefully) whether GODI or
Debian is better. Such comparisons are stupid.

Well, Ubuntu is another case, as we all know that Ubuntu does not care
about the quality of their ocaml packages.

>  IMO, It depends
> on the manpower behind (and maybe dev tools and release process).
> But I don't see where you gain to have a source-based distribution
> to address this kind of issues (except for the build time… but that's
> ridiculous).

Debian is in the lucky situation that they provide both the environment
for ocaml and ocaml. So yes, they can fix the problems they created in
their own environment :-) - Ubuntu is already a different story, they
provide binary packages without any QA process.

The worst case is when you have a binary distribution of ocaml for an OS
you do not control. Sometimes the only possible fix is then to check at
runtime (!) whether you are in a problematic environment or not. Ask
Windows users how this feels.

I hope you get my point. "Binary" does not necessarily mean "as good as
Debian".

> The real problem of Ubuntu (wrt. OCaml) is that OCaml has no maintainer.
> And, we also see that with GODI. manpower is lacking and you weren't able
> to release a fix until today, although the patch was there since quite
> some time now. (Not blaming anyone here, just stating a fact).

Well, nobody told us. I don't see this as a real problem, though,
because we get problem reports when the first user runs into the
problem, and then we can fix it asap. We fortunately don't have to
synchronize with a given release timeline.

> But oh well, maybe all this is off-topic.

Manpower is certainly an issue (for all ocaml distros). I'm currently
working on a plan how to improve this for GODI. Don't know whether it
works, though.

Regarding Ubuntu, maybe we should ask them to remove their ocaml
packages from their distribution as long as they do not do QA.


Gerd

> Regards,
> 


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gerd Stolpmann, Bad Nauheimer Str.3, 64289 Darmstadt,Germany 
gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de          http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
Phone: +49-6151-153855                  Fax: +49-6151-997714
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Caml-list] Warning: Ubuntu 11.04 Vs OCaml 3.12.0

[Stéphane Glondu]

Le 03/05/2011 23:59, Gerd Stolpmann a écrit :
> Well, Ubuntu is another case, as we all know that Ubuntu does not care
> about the quality of their ocaml packages.
> [...]
> Debian is in the lucky situation that they provide both the environment
> for ocaml and ocaml. So yes, they can fix the problems they created in
> their own environment :-) - Ubuntu is already a different story, they
> provide binary packages without any QA process.
> [...]
> Regarding Ubuntu, maybe we should ask them to remove their ocaml
> packages from their distribution as long as they do not do QA.

You sound like ocaml-related packages are totally broken in Ubuntu,
which is not true. They probably do more QA than GODI, even on
ocaml-related packages (e.g. frequent recompilations with new versions
of toolchain, early bug reporting when something breaks). But as you
pointed out, they have complete control over their OS... it would be
more difficult to do that for GODI. Sure, Ubuntu doesn't have a
dedicated ocaml maintainer, and copy their packages directly from Debian
and they should work most of the time (actually, I've never heard of
breakages that were specific to Ubuntu).

BTW, the ocaml package shipped by Ubuntu 11.04 has been fixed (it's
still version 3.11.2, though). The original mail of this thread was
about an ocaml compiled from sources.


Cheers,

-- 
Stéphane

Re: [Caml-list] Warning: Ubuntu 11.04 Vs OCaml 3.12.0

[Gerd Stolpmann]

Am Mittwoch, den 04.05.2011, 00:32 +0200 schrieb Stéphane Glondu:
> Le 03/05/2011 23:59, Gerd Stolpmann a écrit :
> > Well, Ubuntu is another case, as we all know that Ubuntu does not care
> > about the quality of their ocaml packages.
> > [...]
> > Debian is in the lucky situation that they provide both the environment
> > for ocaml and ocaml. So yes, they can fix the problems they created in
> > their own environment :-) - Ubuntu is already a different story, they
> > provide binary packages without any QA process.
> > [...]
> > Regarding Ubuntu, maybe we should ask them to remove their ocaml
> > packages from their distribution as long as they do not do QA.
> 
> You sound like ocaml-related packages are totally broken in Ubuntu,
> which is not true. They probably do more QA than GODI, even on
> ocaml-related packages (e.g. frequent recompilations with new versions
> of toolchain, early bug reporting when something breaks). But as you
> pointed out, they have complete control over their OS... it would be
> more difficult to do that for GODI.

We have an autobuilder, but it is simply not possible to find this type
of problem automatically without also controlling the OS. The
autobuilder runs on a single OS and a single version of that only, and
this is always behind the latest release.

Also, for GODI pre-release QA is not as important as for a binary
distro.

>  Sure, Ubuntu doesn't have a
> dedicated ocaml maintainer, and copy their packages directly from Debian
> and they should work most of the time (actually, I've never heard of
> breakages that were specific to Ubuntu).
> 
> BTW, the ocaml package shipped by Ubuntu 11.04 has been fixed (it's
> still version 3.11.2, though). The original mail of this thread was
> about an ocaml compiled from sources.

Thanks for the clarification. In deed I understood this differently - as
if Ubuntu shipped the broken ocaml.

Gerd

> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- 
> Stéphane
> 
> 
> 


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gerd Stolpmann, Bad Nauheimer Str.3, 64289 Darmstadt,Germany 
gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de          http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
Phone: +49-6151-153855                  Fax: +49-6151-997714
------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Caml-list] Warning: Ubuntu 11.04 Vs OCaml 3.12.0

[Till Crueger]

On Tue, 03 May 2011 18:36:28 +0200, Sebastien Mondet  
<sebastien.mondet@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Just a warning for those who use Ubuntu and ocaml from sources (or GODI):
>
> Ubuntu 11.04 (just released) contains the GNU assembler version
> 2.21.0.20110327
> which affects this bug in the current version of the compiler:
> http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/view.php?id=5237
> (it will be fixed in 3.12.1)
>
> Hope I saved some of you from a painful upgrade :)

Too late... I already upgraded all my computers and lots of things seem to  
be broken with Natty Narwhale. Just as another warning for those  
considering it right now.

Is there any indication as to when this will be fixed in GODI?

Bye,

-- 
Till Crueger                            Theodor-Litt-Straße 11
  Dipl. Inform. (computer science)       53121 Bonn
					Germany
Phone:                                  +49 228 24069247
					+49 176 20481795

http://www.tcrueger.de

Re: [Caml-list] Warning: Ubuntu 11.04 Vs OCaml 3.12.0

[Virgile Prevosto]

Le ven. 06 mai 2011 23:44:25 CEST,
"Till Crueger" <Till.Crueger@gmx.net> a écrit :

> Too late... I already upgraded all my computers and lots of things
> seem to be broken with Natty Narwhale. Just as another warning for
> those considering it right now.
> 
> Is there any indication as to when this will be fixed in GODI?

In principle, this is already the case (packages godi-ocaml-src and
godi-ocaml 3.12.0#2 and 3.11.2#1 for sections 3.12 and 3.11
respectively).

-- 
E tutto per oggi, a la prossima volta.
Virgile