From: Robert Fischer <robert@fischerventure.com>
To: Oliver Bandel <oliver@first.in-berlin.de>
Cc: Caml-list List <caml-list@inria.fr>
Subject: Business Adoption of Ocaml [was Re: [Caml-list] If OCaml were a car]
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:46:26 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <46CAFAC2.3090302@fischerventure.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1187689892.46cab5a45112e@webmail.in-berlin.de>
(This is an on-topic post, but it's going to take a while for me to get
there: scroll down.)
Oliver Bandel wrote:
> IMHO, many (most) things that are used in industry are really bad
> things. And people insist on using bad langauges and bad systems,
> because they are accustomed to it, and some Lobbyists
> sell that stuff.
>
>
This is an academic conceit, which isn't really fair. The problem is
that what academics consider "really bad things" and what industry
considers "really bad things" are two very different things. The
criteria for judging languages are simply different.
To business, picking a language or a framework is a matter of
prognostication. Few businesses are willing to carry an unsupported
library or language, or want to be exposed to the dangers of an
uncontrolled library, so they need to pick languages and libraries that
have a lifespan. They don't want to perform expensive experiments to
see if a new language or paradigm is really going to help. And things
being open source makes the situation worse, not better: by actually
spending money on things, you gain a legalistic and business protection
-- at the level of management, contractual guaranties are nearly as good
as reality. And, even more, it's important to pick a popular language,
because popular languages have a wide variety of developers to choose
from, which makes growth a lot cheaper.
Note that none of these qualities have anything to do with the
efficiency of the language, both in terms of processing efficiency or
development efficiency. They're business concerns, coming from a very
different context.
If we want more commercial adoption of Ocaml, we need to see more
companies (like Jane Street) which are willing to take the risk and
adopt Ocaml. Their successes, and the community that they are building,
need to be advertised. Business needs to believe that the language (or
close derivations thereof) is here for the long haul, and that it either
is or presently will be widely adopted.
One good way of handling this is to find and grow a niche -- this was
the approach that Ruby on Rails has taken. Yet it's notable that Groovy
on Grails, by virtue of it being "basically Java" and interoperable with
large swaths of existing application code, is posing a significant
threat to the corporate adoption of Ruby on Rails.
I'm not sure if Ocaml has such a niche to grab onto, and it isn't
already a popular language, so as much as I'd love to see its widespread
adoption, I'm not holding out a lot of hope. I think the one major
niche we could get into is concurrency (like Brian's deferred
monad/futures* or jocaml), but the main language isn't there yet.
* http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/archive/2007/08/13/323
~~ Robert.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-08-21 14:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-08-18 19:21 If OCaml were a car Richard Jones
2007-08-18 20:24 ` [Caml-list] " Jeff Meister
2007-08-18 21:32 ` Michael Vanier
2007-08-19 11:50 ` Daniel Bünzli
2007-08-19 11:59 ` Erik de Castro Lopo
2007-08-22 5:50 ` Luca de Alfaro
2007-08-22 8:13 ` Jon Harrop
2007-08-22 9:20 ` Jacques Garrigue
2007-08-24 2:54 ` Nathaniel Gray
2007-08-25 19:45 ` Oliver Bandel
2007-08-19 14:43 ` John Carr
2007-08-19 16:22 ` brogoff
2007-08-19 17:07 ` Richard Jones
2007-08-19 17:19 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
2007-08-22 6:04 ` Luca de Alfaro
2007-08-19 20:51 ` Vincent Hanquez
2007-08-21 8:05 ` David Allsopp
2007-08-21 18:33 ` Richard Jones
2007-08-19 20:30 ` Tom
2007-08-19 21:45 ` skaller
2007-08-20 3:37 ` Jon Harrop
2007-08-20 6:26 ` skaller
2007-08-20 10:00 ` Joerg van den Hoff
2007-08-21 12:03 ` Florian Hars
2007-08-20 6:54 ` skaller
2007-08-20 19:54 ` Oliver Bandel
2007-08-20 20:27 ` David Allsopp
2007-08-20 20:50 ` Ulf Wiger (TN/EAB)
2007-08-21 10:56 ` Joerg van den Hoff
2007-08-20 21:13 ` Oliver Bandel
2007-08-21 0:47 ` skaller
2007-08-21 9:51 ` Oliver Bandel
2007-08-21 10:30 ` skaller
2007-08-21 18:57 ` Richard Jones
2007-08-22 2:49 ` skaller
2007-08-22 11:33 ` Thomas Fischbacher
2007-08-21 14:46 ` Robert Fischer [this message]
2007-08-21 15:09 ` Business Adoption of Ocaml [was Re: [Caml-list] If OCaml were a car] Brian Hurt
2007-08-21 15:48 ` [Caml-list] If OCaml were a car brogoff
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