From: Benjamin Geer <ben@socialtools.net>
To: Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons <Diego.FERNANDEZ_PONS@etu.upmc.fr>
Cc: Nicolas Cannasse <warplayer@free.fr>, caml-list@inria.fr
Subject: Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:42:54 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4059994E.2010802@socialtools.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.44.0403181234220.602186-100000@ibm1>
Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons wrote:
> Mieux vaut ne pas imposer de bibliotheque par defaut que d'en imposer
> une mauvaise, quitte a paraitre peu reactif. Or aucune des
> bibliotheques citees ne fait l'objet d'un consensus, meme partiel.
The problem is not simply that INRIA is too cautious, it's that there is
no visible process for accepting enhancements to Caml or its libraries
from outside INRIA. INRIA very rarely responds at all, either
positively or negatively, to proposed modifications from outsiders (the
sole exception seems to be bug fixes).
Recently there has been a long discussion on this list about enhancing
the Unix module, and no one from INRIA has said a word about it; this is
very discouraging. Has ocaml-lib.sourceforge.net been rejected? Is
INRIA silently working on its own library enhancements which will be
incompatibly replace some of the enhancements developed by the
community? Is there a plan for the future development of Caml? We are
like the man in Kafka's novel _The Trial_, who stands for years at the
door of the Law, and is never told whether he will be seen, or when, or
if not, why not.
Compare this to what happens in successful, healthy open-source
communities: GCC has a development plan
(http://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html). The core developers discuss all
proposed enhancements on the mailing list. The steering committee makes
clear, timely decisions about which changes will be included in each
release. Thanks to this plan, a wide variety of companies and
individuals contribute to GCC.
Python has excellent standard libraries not because there is always 100%
consensus on what to put in them, but because there is a clear process
for extending them (http://www.python.org/peps/). The Python project
leader responds quickly to proposals, participates in discussion, and
makes clear, justified decisions.
I think Caml desperately needs an explicit development plan and a clear,
efficient process for accepting enhancements from the community. Until
it has these, it will not be able to meet the needs of its users; many
of its users will be increasingly frustrated, and will eventually
abandon it.
Ben
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-03-18 12:42 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 127+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-03-09 17:30 [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library Vasili Galchin
2004-03-09 17:55 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-09 18:11 ` Shawn Wagner
2004-03-15 19:44 ` Eric Stokes
2004-03-16 5:32 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-17 15:52 ` Eric Stokes
2004-03-18 0:19 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-18 8:56 ` OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library) Matt Gushee
2004-03-18 10:31 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-18 11:22 ` Nicolas Cannasse
2004-03-18 11:18 ` Wolfgang Müller
2004-03-18 11:55 ` Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons
2004-03-18 12:42 ` Benjamin Geer [this message]
2004-03-18 14:12 ` Xavier Leroy
2004-03-18 17:18 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-18 17:56 ` Alex Baretta
2004-03-18 18:33 ` Markus Mottl
2004-03-19 10:58 ` [Caml-list] Structuring the Caml community Christophe TROESTLER
2004-03-19 18:29 ` Yamagata Yoriyuki
2004-03-18 23:44 ` [Caml-list] Structuring the Caml community (Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar) Alain.Frisch
2004-03-19 8:36 ` Oliver Bandel
2004-03-19 19:03 ` Eric Stokes
2004-03-19 22:34 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-19 22:58 ` Matthew O'Connor
2004-03-19 23:15 ` Eric Stokes
2004-03-19 23:23 ` Karl Zilles
2004-03-20 10:10 ` ocaml.org (was: Re: [Caml-list] Structuring the Caml community (Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar)) Richard Jones
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403201143290.2678-100000@lcmpc4.epfl.ch>
2004-03-20 10:47 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-18 23:41 ` OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library) Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-19 0:47 ` Kenneth Knowles
2004-03-19 8:54 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-19 12:29 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-19 12:44 ` [Caml-list] Proposed community structure (was Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar) Benjamin Geer
2004-03-19 17:30 ` [Caml-list] " Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-20 6:30 ` Matt Gushee
2004-03-20 6:49 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-20 13:19 ` Ville-Pertti Keinonen
2004-03-20 19:03 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-20 11:23 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-20 16:46 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-20 13:07 ` [Caml-list] Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar Dmitry Bely
2004-03-20 15:55 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-20 20:09 ` brogoff
2004-03-18 12:55 ` Alex Baretta
2004-03-19 8:54 ` OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library) Sven Luther
2004-03-19 9:12 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-18 13:12 ` John Carr
2004-03-18 13:56 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-18 18:41 ` Oliver Bandel
2004-03-18 20:10 ` John Carr
2004-03-18 23:20 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-19 1:30 ` Jacques Garrigue
2004-03-19 5:10 ` skaller
2004-03-19 8:41 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 8:58 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-19 9:13 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 10:03 ` Alex Baretta
2004-03-19 10:17 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 11:49 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-19 12:20 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2004-03-19 12:31 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 12:34 ` Issac Trotts
2004-03-21 9:13 ` skaller
2004-03-21 20:05 ` Issac Trotts
[not found] ` <1079927683.3165.73.camel@pelican.wigram>
2004-03-22 6:51 ` Issac Trotts
2004-03-23 19:48 ` skaller
2004-03-23 22:16 ` Gerd Stolpmann
2004-04-03 6:36 ` Dustin Sallings
2004-04-03 7:43 ` Kenneth Knowles
2004-04-05 7:50 ` Dustin Sallings
2004-04-06 4:20 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-04-06 7:24 ` skaller
2004-04-06 17:24 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-04-06 17:38 ` Kip Macy
2004-04-07 23:11 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-04-07 23:08 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-04-07 23:31 ` Dustin Sallings
2004-04-08 13:57 ` John Goerzen
2004-04-13 11:15 ` Keith Wansbrough
2004-04-08 13:48 ` John Goerzen
2004-04-08 14:06 ` Richard Jones
2004-04-08 14:53 ` John Goerzen
2004-04-08 19:56 ` [Caml-list] Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar Christophe TROESTLER
2004-04-08 20:47 ` OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library) Evan Martin
2004-04-08 21:20 ` Kenneth Knowles
2004-04-07 23:03 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-04-08 7:03 ` james woodyatt
2004-04-08 7:15 ` Stijn De Saeger
2004-04-08 8:25 ` skaller
2004-04-08 9:35 ` Andreas Rossberg
2004-04-08 11:05 ` Florian Hars
2004-04-08 11:31 ` Andreas Rossberg
2004-04-08 13:39 ` Jacques Garrigue
2004-04-08 12:33 ` Richard Jones
2004-03-19 12:17 ` Alex Baretta
2004-03-19 12:37 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 12:44 ` Issac Trotts
2004-03-18 23:31 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-19 1:08 ` Michael Vanier
2004-03-19 8:51 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 13:20 ` John Carr
2004-03-19 15:12 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-21 21:11 ` John Carr
2004-03-22 6:46 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 8:48 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-18 18:57 ` Shawn Wagner
2004-03-18 21:16 ` Kenneth Knowles
2004-03-18 22:32 ` Fernando Alegre
2004-03-19 0:03 ` [Caml-list] Re: OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar Remi Vanicat
2004-03-19 8:50 ` [Caml-list] Demande clarification nomenclature ocaml* Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons
2004-03-19 9:49 ` [Caml-list] Suggestion (was: Demande clarification nomenclature ocaml*) Wolfgang Müller
2004-03-19 10:19 ` [Caml-list] Modules and namespaces Richard Jones
2004-03-19 10:42 ` Wolfgang Müller
2004-03-19 10:45 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 13:56 ` Fernando Alegre
2004-03-19 15:15 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-19 11:45 ` [Caml-list] Demande clarification nomenclature ocaml* Benjamin Geer
2004-03-20 6:12 ` OCaml's Cathedral & Bazaar (was Re: [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library) Matt Gushee
2004-03-20 11:29 ` Benjamin Geer
2004-03-20 6:23 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-20 6:23 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-09 17:59 ` [Caml-list] Completeness of "Unix" run-time library james woodyatt
2004-03-19 10:19 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-20 6:15 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-20 6:40 ` Sven Luther
2004-03-20 6:45 ` Vasili Galchin
2004-03-09 18:04 ` Stefano Zacchiroli
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