From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by sympa.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 820E17EE51 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 04:44:16 +0200 (CEST) Received-SPF: None (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of oliver@first.in-berlin.de) identity=pra; client-ip=192.109.42.8; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="oliver@first.in-berlin.de"; x-sender="oliver@first.in-berlin.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: None (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of oliver@first.in-berlin.de) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=192.109.42.8; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="oliver@first.in-berlin.de"; x-sender="oliver@first.in-berlin.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible Received-SPF: None (mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr: no sender authenticity information available from domain of postmaster@einhorn.in-berlin.de) identity=helo; client-ip=192.109.42.8; receiver=mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; envelope-from="oliver@first.in-berlin.de"; x-sender="postmaster@einhorn.in-berlin.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnYBADEZpFHAbSoIlGdsb2JhbABagziDO7kphSaBCRYOAQEBAQcNCQkUBCSCIwEBBSNKDBALCQ8CAgUUDQICDwUYMYggBAirMJBnFoEQjCqBTQeCQTJhA48HiDOBKpMo X-IPAS-Result: AnYBADEZpFHAbSoIlGdsb2JhbABagziDO7kphSaBCRYOAQEBAQcNCQkUBCSCIwEBBSNKDBALCQ8CAgUUDQICDwUYMYggBAirMJBnFoEQjCqBTQeCQTJhA48HiDOBKpMo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.87,755,1363129200"; d="scan'208";a="19213630" Received: from einhorn.in-berlin.de ([192.109.42.8]) by mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 28 May 2013 04:44:16 +0200 X-Envelope-From: oliver@first.in-berlin.de Received: from first (e178003162.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.178.3.162]) (authenticated bits=0) by einhorn.in-berlin.de (8.13.6/8.13.6/Debian-1) with ESMTP id r4S2iE2H031345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 28 May 2013 04:44:14 +0200 Received: by first (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 21B6F154066B; Tue, 28 May 2013 04:44:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 04:44:14 +0200 From: oliver To: Francois Berenger Cc: caml-list@inria.fr Message-ID: <20130528024413.GA4602@siouxsie> References: <20130523235355.GI6510@siouxsie> <20130526150008.GA2014@siouxsie> <20130526234911.41866xca7wgoirfb@webmail.in-berlin.de> <51A30E01.5070300@freenet.de> <20130527185345.e01a7733ac652f89f4e400f7@mega-nerd.com> <51A353BE.5030009@freenet.de> <51A40590.4090501@riken.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <51A40590.4090501@riken.jp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang_at_IN-Berlin_e.V. on 192.109.42.8 Subject: Re: Problems to get larger user base ... (Re: [Caml-list] OCaml's variables) On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:17:04AM +0900, Francois Berenger wrote: > On 05/27/2013 09:38 PM, Mr. Herr wrote: > > > >Am 27.05.2013 10:53, schrieb Erik de Castro Lopo: > >>Mr. Herr wrote: > >>>I think the biggest problem is you generally can only learn FP and/or Ocaml at > >>>university, because: > >>> > >>>The FP terminology is at first (and a long time after starting learning it), without > >>>a teacher, not understandable. > >>Sorry, that's simply not true. > >> > >>I studied my last univeristy course in 1992. I picked up Ocaml in 2004 > >>and Haskell in 2008. Before Ocaml, the only functional language I had > >>used was scheme in the late 1980s. > >> > > > >Scheme is terribly functional, so to say, and is absolutely immerged in the Lispy slang. > >All your knowlegde in C, Java, PHP, Assembler, Tcl/Tk, Pascal ... will not help you > >there. > > > >I started as an IBM /370 Systems Admin in the late nineties, and it took me months of > >reading in 2012 > >to get some understanding about what the heck the scheme people are talking about. > > > >Scheme is even a better example for the problems non university learners encounter, > >than Ocaml, IMO. > > A very good book on scheme (which is also quite a deep introduction > to computer science if you read the whole thing in fact): > > "structure and interpretation of computer programs" > > http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html [...] As language introduction it is too much text. It is meant as introduction to computer science. AFAIK scheme was developed for this task. The scheme standard is not so hard to read, and it has only 50 pages. Thats IMHO better if someone looks for a introduction to the language only. For comparison: OCaml ref-man: 554 pages and IMHO not a good starting point. IMHO better are some of the introductional books out there, e.g. OCaml-Ora-book and jason Hickeys book. After that then the Refman. Ciao, Oliver