From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.1.3 Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6B8BB84 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:16:41 +0200 (CEST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuwBAGi+o0jUnw4SjWdsb2JhbACCLo9PAQEBAQcHBgcTo3KBVQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.32,209,1217800800"; d="scan'208";a="16114512" Received: from pih-relay05.plus.net ([212.159.14.18]) by mail1-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 14 Aug 2008 14:16:41 +0200 Received: from [90.198.246.64] (helo=beast.local) by pih-relay05.plus.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1KTbku-0000WM-2Q; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:16:40 +0100 From: Jon Harrop Organization: Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd. To: david_hd@yahoo.com, caml-list@yquem.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Haskell vs OCaml Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:17:43 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <776282.7991.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <776282.7991.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200808141317.43992.jon@ffconsultancy.com> X-Plusnet-Relay: e70f2f326ced60e4cac1b7f9e09f2cbb X-Spam: no; 0.00; haskell:01 ocaml:01 haskell:01 afaik:01 ocaml:01 mldonkey:01 ledit:01 hevea:01 wiki:01 ubuntu:98 ubuntu:98 decreased:98 git:98 git:98 frog:98 On Thursday 14 August 2008 03:46:10 David Thomas wrote: > --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Jon Harrop wrote: > > I consider them all to be untested because nobody has ever done anything > > significant using Haskell AFAIK. > > Besides the window manager I'm currently using... :-P Interestingly, the number of registered installs of XMonad has increased a lot from only 95 in January to 542 now. However, that is still orders of magnitude fewer than the most popular open source software written in OCaml: Debian and Ubuntu registered installs ------------------------------------- 184,574: FFTW (14,298 lines of OCaml) 12,866: Unison (23,993 lines of OCaml) 7,286: MLDonkey (171,332 lines of OCaml) 4,365: Darcs (3,939 lines of Haskell) 4,066: FreeTennis (7,419 lines of OCaml) 4,057: Planets (3,296 lines of OCaml) 3,465: HPodder (2,225 lines of Haskell) 2,965: LEdit (2,048 lines of OCaml) 2,822: Hevea (11,596 lines of OCaml) 2,657: Polygen (1,331 lines of OCaml) So: . 8/10 of the top ten most popular OCaml/Haskell open source projects on Debian and Ubuntu were written in OCaml and not Haskell. . 221,293 installs of popular OCaml software compared to only 7,830 of Haskell. . 235,312 lines of well-tested OCaml code compared to only 6,164 lines of well-tested Haskell code. Some of the Haskell projects (e.g. pugs and srcinst) have even *decreased* in popularity over the past 7 months. Indeed, Darcs was only being used to a significant extent by the Haskell community and the GHC developers are now giving up on it themselves citing awful performance as one of the main reasons: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/DarcsEvaluation Note their own benchmark results: Annotate: Darcs is 50x slower than Git. Clone: Darcs is 49x slower than Git. -- Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd. http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/?e