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From: Eray Ozkural <erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr>
To: John Max Skaller <skaller@ozemail.com.au>,
	Oleg <oleg_inconnu@myrealbox.com>
Cc: OCaml <caml-list@inria.fr>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvement
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:57:10 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200210151157.10918.erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3D2EDD3B.2080100@ozemail.com.au>

On Friday 12 July 2002 16:44, John Max Skaller wrote:
> Two major reasons.
>
>     (1) licence uncertainty
>     (2) lack of programmers
>
> Issue (2) will go away with time as use snowballs,
> it would help if Universities started teaching Ocaml instead
> of stupid OO languages like Java, or at least as well as.

Indeed. The industry wants OO, the industry thinks Java is the
ultimate OO language, they persuade clueless academics (who might as well 
think that choice of PL is irrelevant to understanding the theory), and
then they start teaching Java (and now C#) at the university.

The problem is that OO is *not* the best approach to programming.
OO is a kind of program conceptualization that might be of some
use in certain domains while failing miserably in majority of domains. That's 
why most of the "OO" code is iteration constructs and imperative nonsense, 
over and over again. I once told a colleague that 90% percent of the code we 
are writing in C++ is iterators. Nothing in the world could be more stupid 
than that.

Besides, C does not hold the crown of imperative languages, especially when it 
comes to demonstrating the basics of programming. Pascal does a much better 
job at that in my opinion, and Algol might even do better but nobody 
comprehends its prominence among imperative languages.

It is so amusing when "Software Engineers" find out that the overblown UML 
can't be used to model every kind of program.

Happy hacking,

-- 
Eray Ozkural <erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr>
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
GPG public key fingerprint: 360C 852F 88B0 A745 F31B  EA0F 7C07 AE16 874D 539C
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-10-15 11:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 94+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-07-08 19:53 [Caml-list] " Oleg
2002-07-08 20:14 ` Michael Vanier
2002-07-10 15:50   ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-10 18:56     ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-10 19:09       ` Jun P.FURUSE
2002-07-11 23:43         ` Pierre Weis
     [not found] ` <15657.61603.221054.289184@spike.artisan.com>
2002-07-09  4:43   ` [Caml-list] Universal Serializer (was: productivity improvement) Oleg
2002-07-09  7:56     ` Nicolas Cannasse
2002-07-09  7:59     ` Nicolas Cannasse
2002-07-10 16:06       ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-10 22:29         ` Michael Vanier
2002-07-11  8:13           ` Nicolas Cannasse
2002-07-12 12:41           ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-14 12:25             ` [Caml-list] Statically detecting arrays bound exceptions ?? (was: Universal Serializer) Berke Durak
2002-07-14 13:24               ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-15  8:23                 ` Xavier Leroy
2002-07-15  8:39                 ` Noel Welsh
2002-07-15 21:22                   ` Oleg
2002-07-15 22:44                     ` Michael Vanier
2002-07-16  6:43                     ` Florian Hars
2002-07-16 20:22               ` [Caml-list] " John Max Skaller
2002-07-16 20:36                 ` Johan Baltié
2002-07-16 20:55                   ` Hao-yang Wang
2002-07-17  8:25                   ` Noel Welsh
2002-07-12  1:41         ` [Caml-list] Universal Serializer (was: productivity improvement) Eray Ozkural
2002-07-12  8:10           ` [Caml-list] OCaml QT bindings Stefano Zacchiroli
2002-07-12 17:30             ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-12 10:37         ` [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvement Oleg
2002-07-12 11:23           ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 11:34             ` Oleg
2002-07-12 11:43               ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 12:59                 ` Pierre Weis
2002-07-12 16:42                   ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-14 20:44                 ` Dave Berry
2002-07-14 22:13                   ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-15 16:43                     ` Alwyn Goodloe
2002-07-16 20:14                     ` Dave Berry
2002-07-17  3:21                       ` Eric Merritt
2002-07-15  9:39                   ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-10-15  8:38                   ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-17 21:27                     ` Dave Berry
2002-10-18  2:48                       ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-20 12:46                         ` Dave Berry
2002-10-21  6:11                           ` Michael Vanier
2003-05-10 20:41                           ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-12 11:43             ` Noel Welsh
2002-07-12 12:10               ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 13:44           ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 16:19             ` Alan Schmitt
2002-07-12 20:41             ` John Carr
2002-07-13 21:19               ` [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvementu Pierre Weis
2002-07-12 21:24             ` [Caml-list] Re: productivity improvement Brian Smith
2002-10-15  8:57             ` Eray Ozkural [this message]
2002-10-15 11:50               ` [Caml-list] eproductivity improvement Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-09 12:45 ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement Basile STARYNKEVITCH
2002-07-09 18:20   ` Shannon --jj Behrens
2002-07-09 19:16     ` Oleg
2002-07-09 20:31       ` Shannon --jj Behrens
2002-07-10 10:02     ` sebastien FURIC
2002-07-10 11:58       ` Dave Mason
2002-07-10 13:11         ` sebastien FURIC
2002-07-10 19:22           ` nadji
2002-07-10 20:15       ` Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages (Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement) Oleg
2002-07-10 20:34         ` [Caml-list] " William D. Neumann
2002-07-10 20:47           ` [Caml-list] Re: Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages Alexander V.Voinov
2002-07-10 21:16             ` William D. Neumann
2002-07-10 20:49           ` [Caml-list] Re: Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages (Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement) William D. Neumann
2002-07-11 22:30           ` [Caml-list] Array.resize ? Oleg
2002-07-11 23:06             ` Alessandro Baretta
2002-07-12 13:01               ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 18:24                 ` Shawn Wagner
2002-07-11 23:31             ` Markus Mottl
2002-07-12 12:54             ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 13:23               ` Olivier Andrieu
2002-07-12 14:05                 ` John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 16:09               ` Brian Rogoff
2002-10-19  9:16                 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-10-19 22:15                   ` [Caml-list] debugger losing contact with debuggee process Lex Stein
2002-10-20 10:06                     ` Pierre Weis
2002-10-21  9:11                     ` Xavier Leroy
2002-10-18  3:05             ` [Caml-list] Array.resize ? Eray Ozkural
2002-10-19  1:51               ` Oleg
2003-05-10 20:24                 ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-10 20:48         ` Sieve of Eratosthenes Performance: various languages (Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement) Markus Mottl
2002-07-11  5:53           ` Anton E. Moscal
2002-10-18  3:07           ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-10 15:39 ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement John Max Skaller
2002-07-11  8:57   ` Nicolas barnier
2002-07-12 12:16   ` [Caml-list] Is this a bug? John Max Skaller
2002-07-12 14:05     ` Xavier Leroy
2002-07-16  3:34   ` [Caml-list] productivity improvement Oleg
2002-10-18  3:13     ` Eray Ozkural
2002-07-15  6:00 [Caml-list] " Ohad Rodeh
2002-07-16 20:18 ` Dave Berry

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