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From: Xavier Leroy <Xavier.Leroy@inria.fr>
To: Dave Mason <dmason@sarg.Ryerson.CA>,
	Andreas Rossberg <rossberg@ps.uni-sb.de>
Cc: OCAML <caml-list@inria.fr>, John Skaller <skaller@maxtal.com.au>
Subject: Re: convincing management to switch to Ocaml
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:05:00 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <19990830210500.37195@pauillac.inria.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <199908281951.PAA18613@sarg.Ryerson.CA>; from Dave Mason on Sat, Aug 28, 1999 at 03:51:42PM -0400

> Would it really be beyond a Master's student working under Xavier (or
> other CAML guru) to translate the SML formal spec into a CAML formal
> spec?  Or at least a PhD student.

It's not just a translation.  Some of the features of OCaml (such as
the recursive object types, the partially unspecified evaluation
order, and the whole class system) have deep impact on the formal
semantics and would require a total rewrite.

More generally, don't underestimate the difficulty of producing a
formal definition of a real-world language.  The "Definition of
Standard ML" wasn't written by one student, but by one Turing award
recipient and two world-class specialists in type theory and
operational semantics, and I believe it took them well over one year.

The issue of writing a formal definition of OCaml has been discussed a
lot here at INRIA in projet Cristal, and the consensus is that it's
well over our manpower.  My opinion on this is that it's hopeless
without machine assistance to write, type-check, execute on small
examples, and perhaps even prove basic properties of the spec.  None
of the existing tools in this area (e.g. Centaur, Coq, ELF,
lambda-Prolog) seem adequate for this task, and while there's some
promising work in progress in this direction, it's still very much an open
research problem in itself.

- Xavier Leroy




  reply	other threads:[~1999-08-31 12:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 33+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1999-07-28 14:47 STARYNKEVITCH Basile
1999-07-30  9:00 ` Markus Mottl
1999-08-13 10:32   ` John Skaller
1999-08-25  1:51     ` Frank A. Christoph
1999-08-25  3:50       ` John Skaller
1999-08-25  6:34         ` Frank A. Christoph
1999-08-26 18:36         ` Stefan Monnier
1999-08-29  6:08           ` John Skaller
1999-08-27 10:00         ` Andreas Rossberg
1999-08-28  6:24           ` John Skaller
1999-08-30 15:59             ` Sylvain BOULM'E
1999-08-31  5:50             ` Brian Rogoff
1999-08-28 19:51           ` Dave Mason
1999-08-30 19:05             ` Xavier Leroy [this message]
1999-08-30  8:02           ` Pierre Weis
1999-08-30 19:35             ` John Skaller
1999-08-31 17:10               ` Pierre Weis
1999-09-03  6:56                 ` John Skaller
1999-08-31 19:03               ` Stefan Monnier
1999-09-03  7:28                 ` John Skaller
1999-08-31  0:13             ` John Prevost
1999-08-31  5:19               ` John Skaller
1999-08-31  6:35                 ` John Prevost
1999-09-03  5:42                   ` John Skaller
1999-08-31 16:24           ` Gerard Huet
1999-07-30 14:42 ` John Skaller
1999-07-30 18:49 ` Gerd Stolpmann
1999-07-30 21:30 ` Francois Rouaix
1999-08-12 10:36 ` Reply to: " Jens Olsson
1999-08-16 18:33   ` Chris Tilt
1999-08-12 12:15 ` Frank A. Christoph
1999-08-15  8:14   ` Friedman Roy
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1999-09-07  7:24 TommyHallgren
     [not found] <John Skaller's message of "Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:19:48 +1000">

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