AW: [Caml-list] GODI is shutting down

[Gerd Stolpmann <info@gerd-stolpmann.de>]

Am 23.07.2013 10:46:41 schrieb(en) Keyan:
> Just to through in my 2 cents. I didn't understand what GODI did,  
> when I first tried it. Therefore, I sticked with my OS package manage  
> for a long time (home-brew on Mac OS X). The reason I now use OPAM,  
> it worked straight out of the box, and I know exactly what is  
> happening. The biggest benefit: there is a clean and easy way to  
> uninstall everything (rm -rf ~/.opam), which is the killer argument  
> for me.
> 
> This is not intended to heat up the discussion, but to explain, from  
> a regular user perspective, why I chose opam over godi.

This is just misinformation, and no argument, because godi also  
installs into a separate directory hierarchy. You are a victim of  
OPAM's campaign.

Gerd

> 
> Cheers,
> Keyan
> 
> 
> On 23 Jul 2013, at 08:49, Gabriel Scherer <gabriel.scherer@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Anil Madhavapeddy  
> <anil@recoil.org> wrote:
> >> Instead of doing such a heroic solo job (which I'm not being funny  
> about --
> >> it really is a lot of work), why not spend the time to open up  
> GODI as well?
> >>
> >> Most of the OPAM package descriptions come from *other people*. We  
> just review
> >> them, give feedback if necessary, click the merge button and fix  
> errors that
> >> creep through.  And even that takes up a surprising amount of  
> time...
> >
> > To be fair, I never felt GODI to be a closed system. There are in  
> fact
> > a reasonable number that were packaged by someone else than Gerd  
> (see
> > http://godi.camlcity.org/godi/packages.html , the "released by"  
> field
> > on packages; several were packaged by Virgile Prevosto, for  
> example).
> > It's more that the packaging for GODI is a bit more difficult, and
> > probably just as importantly as there never was a strong community
> > dynamics to contribute to GODI packaging. It is now the norm that
> > everyone should write a META file for ocamlfind, and it is becoming
> > the norm to package for OPAM, but GODI probably came too early at a
> > time where developers expected distributions to do the packaging  
> work
> > (which Debian and Fedora still do superbly), and there never was  
> much
> > of a community dynamics for GODI packaging.
> >
> > And implementation-wise, I have had the pleasure of interacting with
> > Gerd a couple of time to discuss possible changes to ocamlfind, and  
> I
> > did not get the impression that the project was "closed"; I'm quite
> > sure anyone could contribute (or have contributed) to GODI with a
> > well-justified, good-looking patch.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Anil Madhavapeddy  
> <anil@recoil.org> wrote:
> >> On 22 Jul 2013, at 22:21, "Gerd Stolpmann"  
> <info@gerd-stolpmann.de> wrote:
> >>
> >>> There is also another point that was driving me mad in the past  
> weeks,
> >>> namely missing respect from the OPAM guys. Given the fact that  
> OPAM is
> >>> only a thin layer around ocamlfind (and guess who wrote it), and  
> given the
> >>> fact that GODI was pioneering in many fields, I was expecting  
> nicer
> >>> wordings, and less dumb campaigning ("we have 400 packages, and  
> you only
> >>> 170"). OPAM is only harvesting what I seeded many years ago.
> >>
> >> So when you describe the virtues of GODI, you call it  
> 'advocating', and when
> >> Fabrice describes the virtues of OPAM, it's 'dumb campaigning'.  
> This is
> >> splendidly reminiscent of US politics!
> >>
> >> I don't find any of this source-based package management  
> particularly novel.
> >> I've worked in the OpenBSD ports tree since the late 90s, and it's  
> way ahead
> >> of either OPAM or GODI. I think where OPAM contributes most over  
> any other
> >> source manager are the three points on the front page that I  
> iterated earlier
> >> in this thread:
> >>
> >> - multiple simultaneous compiler installations.
> >> - flexible package constraints.
> >> - a Git-friendly development workflow.
> >>
> >> The first is very useful, but PATH munging is certainly not novel.  
> The Git
> >> workflow is heavily inspired by Homebrew.
> >>
> >> The constraint solver has seen a tremendous amount of work though:
> >> there's one version built into OPAM (tweaked relentlessly by  
> Thomas with
> >> heuristics), and the external CUDF solvers from the Mancoosi  
> project which
> >> are magically accurate (but not yet integrated by default until  
> they are
> >> packaged on different repositories).
> >>
> >> Anyway, I'm not a GODI user, but I think you're doing a disservice  
> to your
> >> loyal GODI users if you shut it down in a huff. There are features  
> (notably
> >> Windows support) where it'll take OPAM some time to catch up.  I  
> think that
> >> the real reason that you're shutting it is nothing to do with  
> "respect", but
> >> is good old-fashioned burnt-out:
> >>
> >>> Although there are still a lot of GODI users, it is unavoidable  
> to shut GODI down due to lack of supporters, especially package  
> developers. I was more or less alone in the past months, and my time  
> contingent will not allow it to do the upgrade to OCaml 4.01 alone  
> (when it is released).
> >>
> >> Instead of doing such a heroic solo job (which I'm not being funny  
> about --
> >> it really is a lot of work), why not spend the time to open up  
> GODI as well?
> >>
> >> Most of the OPAM package descriptions come from *other people*. We  
> just review
> >> them, give feedback if necessary, click the merge button and fix  
> errors that
> >> creep through.  And even that takes up a surprising amount of  
> time...
> >>
> >> -anil
> >> --
> >> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> >> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> >> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> >> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> >
> > --
> > Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> > https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 
> 
> --
> Caml-list mailing list.  Subscription management and archives:
> https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/caml-list
> Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners
> Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs
> 



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Gerd Stolpmann, Darmstadt, Germany    gerd@gerd-stolpmann.de
Creator of GODI and camlcity.org.
Contact details:        http://www.camlcity.org/contact.html
Company homepage:       http://www.gerd-stolpmann.de
------------------------------------------------------------