From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by yquem.inria.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C70BCAE for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:23:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp12.wanadoo.fr (smtp12.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.20]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j6IENPS1024680 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:23:25 +0200 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1201.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 3565F1C00040 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:23:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from oemcomputer (Mix-Lyon-303-2-50.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.248.44.50]) by mwinf1201.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id B5AD91C000A7; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:23:23 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050718142323744.B5AD91C000A7@mwinf1201.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <006801c58ba4$0b7bfe60$322cf8c1@oemcomputer> From: "alphablock" To: "Robert Morelli" , "Kyle Consalus" Cc: References: <9cc3782b05071411004b27b6a4@mail.gmail.com> <42DB6161.4030507@cs.utah.edu> Subject: Re: [Caml-list] (Mostly) Functional Design? Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:21:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Miltered: at concorde with ID 42DBBB5D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Spam: no; 0.00; caml-list:01 damien:01 morelli:01 morelli:01 caml-list:01 ocaml:01 ocaml:01 beginner's:01 beginners:01 bug:01 ...:98 conspiracy:98 giants:98 wrote:01 ideally:01 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on yquem.inria.fr X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: May be there are many less FP solutions than OOP solutions just because there are many less FP problems than OOP problems. Or may be i am plain naive, who knows... - damien ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Morelli" To: "Kyle Consalus" Cc: Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [Caml-list] (Mostly) Functional Design? > I've been lurking on this list for several years. This seems as good a > time as any to delurk and jump on a soap box. > > I think you've put your finger on one of the main reasons functional > languages have failed to attract significant use beyond a few niche > areas. > > I contend: > 1. The FP community tends to emphasize low level issues rather than > the larger scale issues that concern most programmers. It is also > inept at practical documentation and advocacy. > 2. There isn't much of a theory of large scale functional design. > At least, there is no consensus. > 3. Point 2. is not the consequence of point 1.; it's not simply a > matter of communication, but an instrinsic void in the FP paradigm. > The FP paradigm is intrinsically poorly adapted to the kind of large > scale design concepts that concern most programmers. Object oriented > programming is a much better match, not because of a conspiracy of > commercial giants in the software tool business, but because of > intrinsic technical reasons. Functional programming is a niche > technology ideally suited to simple domains like language tools and > formal methods. It does not have much to say about complicated > systems. > > > Kyle Consalus wrote: > > There are a wealth of resources related to object oriented design techniques > > (which can certainly be applied to OCaml), but I've been pretty much unable > > to find any good resources on large scale design of functional programs. > > I realize that this is the sort of thing that develops over time with > > experience. > > Just the same, there is (most likely) a lot to learn and consider, and a > > resource would be helpful. My recent uses of OCaml for fairly small projects > > have been effective, but a lot of things were cumbersome in the design > > and I suspect that I may be thinking about it wrong. > > So, could anyone suggest a good resource or perhaps weigh > > in on their thoughts on the topic? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kyle > > _______________________________________________ > Caml-list mailing list. Subscription management: > http://yquem.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/caml-list > Archives: http://caml.inria.fr > Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners > Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs >